Building stair rails

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There have been a lot of questions lately about building stair rails. Right after the last question, I got a little stair job and decided to take pictures all the way through. I'm sure this is not the only way but is just the way I do it. It has worked real well for me for the last 25+ years. Part of it I was shown by another weldor and parts I've customized to make it easier. It will take more than one post.The job and the measurements. I measure to get a triangle of height, distance and diagonal. I use a four foot level if stairs are not over four feet tall and a piece of metal with a level on it. With the level plumb and the metal level you now have a right angle triangle. Measure those distances and the diagonal. Compute the diagonal from the other measurements to double check your self. In this instance where the bottom ballister is past the bottom stair I measured the bottom step as well. Draw it out on paper where you can tell every thing back at the shop.With this stair rail it continued back for five feet of hand rail. The four foot level has marks at 3 1/2" from bottom and at 42" from bottom. This is where I put the bottom and top rail. By holding the level plumb I can tell how much the rock is off for attachments to it. Attached Images
Reply:When you get to the shop you can now lay it out on the table or the slab if the table is not big enough. It is quite easy to plot back, up or down to get other post attachments from the triangle.You can then just lay your metal on the table and draw your angles and lengths on your tubing and cut it on a chop saw perfect.I tack every thing together and add a couple of pickets to add some strength and then take it to the job to check it. On this job the porch fell 1 1/4" in the five feet of the hand rail portion so a check is a good idea. Attached Images
Reply:The check was perfect so it was time to fill in the pickets, slide on the shoes and weld on the plates. After that it was a trip to the powder coaters.Here is the finished railing sitting in place. Attached Images
Reply:Hello Bob, that is a really nice looking rail. Your approach is a simple yet accurate one and it certainly appears as though it works very well for you. As you mentioned, there are likely a number of additional ways to do a job such as that, obviously yours works very well for you. Congratulations and thanks for sharing those very nice pics as well. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Very nice!!John
Reply:To attach every thing I use Tap Con screws. If you ever get a bad powdercoating job and have to take railing out you will really appreciate them. It really makes it easy. Uuuuh, and yes, it's happened before.Get the railing in it's exact position and mark all holes. Move the railing and drill with the correct bit at least 1/4" deeper than you need to go. It allows a place for the dust to fall and won't bother the fit of the screws.After drilling the holes then prethread them with a screw using the drill with the appropriate bit.Move the rail back in place and install the screws with a rachet or open end wrench. Slide the shoe down and it should look great. Attached Images
Reply:With this job, because of the brick porch I also added tabs on the upper part of the posts just under the railing a couple inches so that the pressure of holding onto the railing, would not loosen the screws in the brick.On another job I added a tab onto the bottom post to add strength to it.And here is a picture of it. Attached Images
Reply:A couple of final pictures. The first is the railing installed and one is showing the finish. It's a new powder coat that is heavily textured. It gives a good grip on the railing, especially for older people and because it is thick it really hides those little grind marks you may have missed sanding. It really complements stone well with the rough texturing.I hope you can get something out of this and if you have any questions just ask away. Attached Images
Reply:Very nice work Bob.Will
Reply:beautiful work Bob, I have a good friend who does a lot of railing work, & I asked him why he didnt weld the picket topside on the bottom channel, his reply not cost effective, but  I think it makes for a better job & is worth the extra effort not to mention keeping moisture out of the joint                                                                                                      Bob
Reply:Nice work!  Thanks for the pics and info.Work HARDER, not smarter! ------------------------ Miller Bobcat 250Millermatic 251Lincoln Precision TIG 185Hypertherm PM 600Hobart 135 HandlerOxweld 400 FlameMaster
Reply:Nice work work bob !  have you ever tried a core drill to drill the the steps and install the posts that way?I've done the both ways and some times it works better.  thanks for the post it's allways good to see how other people do things to learn and understand diffrent ways of getting the job done .
Reply:I've used the core drill method several times. It's good as it gives you a little play up and down so you can get the rails just perfect. I usually do it for hand rails out in a floor like in some cafeteria railing for the food lines. It still looks better if you use shoes to cover the concrete. I've see them in restaurants where no shoes were used and I think it looks unfinished.
Reply:Here is a bunch of miscellaneous stairs and rails I have made over the past few years.All made from drawings, usually field verified. This set went over a river to an old mill buildingBasement stairs for a water treatment plantStairs and rails waiting to be shippedOne of the many miles of aluminum rails for a $hit plantThe aluminum rails are usually cored in to the slab and epoxied.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:That is a nice looking rail, but I was curious as to why the pickets are offset on the bottom rail?SA200,Ranger8,Trailblazer251NT,MM250,Dayton225AC,T  D-XL75,SpoolMate3545SGA100C,HF-15-1  RFCS-14 When I stick it, it stays stuck!
Reply:I noticed that in the picture as well. I swear they are not though. I guess the camera made it look like that though because it is close up.
Reply:I bid a couple of jobs with aluminum stairs and rails over the last couple of years but never got them.  I'm sure my prices weren't the cheapest but my tube bending isn't the greatest either.   My steel rails are about 90% right the first time.    Aluminum screw ups get expensive quick.   Not a gamble i wanted to take.looks good!Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Bob what do you do with granite ? It's a nightmare with a core drill just wondering .
Reply:Are you using the right bits? There's a ton on different diamond matrix's for differing materials. I've seen guys cut for hours with a new blade and go nowhere, yet change to an old blade and slice thru in minutes what took hours with the other one. The difference was that the "new" blade had the wrong matrix for cutting that material. (Guy I was working for was NOT happy about that! ...) If you are using core bits for concrete rather than granite it would not surprise me you have issues..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:looks very nice, dunno bout the 1 pic though with the metal thing bending over the ledge, kinda ruins the look a bit, maybe should have used wider longer bolts on the main 4 screw holes, would look cleaner
Reply:DSW  you are right about the diamond matrix's on diamond core drill and saw blades.  I drill and cut through so many kinds of stone and concrete.  Using the wrong bit is just a waste of time and money.  You need the right bit for the job.  The money I have tied up in bits would scare you.  I have from 3/4 to 12".  If you use the wrong matrix's bit for the wrong, you just eat up a good bit.  Here in Saint Louis we have 2 kinds of concrete. The one that has meramac gravel in it can be harder to cut than granite. They make core bits just for this concrete now.