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here is a pick of some pipe im trying to tig open joint but the root reinforcementdont look right  i dont normaly get to do this but im trying to learn so if i need to i can do it right the first time my fill and cover pass look good the root looks good on the out side but not so much on the inside any help would be nice Attached ImagesChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:thats "burn thru"..it is tough to stop but if you use less heat and go a little faster with the filler you should be able to combat that..tack it in 6 places around the diameter..fill inbetween the tacks..do one side then the opposite..let cool and repeat untill its done..them pur your cover pass over that.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:ok ill try on the next one but on a asme pipe test i need to have a small amount of weld in side as reinforcement ,it will have to wait im out of argon thanks for the insite zapChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:well in all reality it really dont look so bad on the inside..purging the pipe will make it look alot nicer but if you cant do that then like i said less heat and you'll do just fine.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:That doesn't look too bad!  It looks to me like the weld is sucking back on you.Add ALOT of filler metal on the root pass, and that should cure your problem.  If you don't the molten metal will travel up the bevel on you.  You need to put some 'meat' behind it so it doesn't do that.About 135ish amps is what I use on a root, I have been getting good results with that.
Reply:thanks wen i get more argon ill try less amps but the way it is now it would be rejected by our testers before it even got cut up these guys are very pickyChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Originally Posted by chopper5thanks wen i get more argon ill try less amps but the way it is now it would be rejected by our testers before it even got cut up these guys are very picky
Reply:oh ill get it ,no pice O pipe is going to best me ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:I would say that your root just "sucked back". Do you have a hot pass over it? The heat of your hot pass will sometimes cause the root to "pull back out" Also, add more filler like Narco said and don't be afraid of a gap. You should'nt need a purge. Keep your bead as narrow as possible concentrating your heat right at the gap. Hope this helps, HenryA bad welder makes a good grinderA grinder and paint makes a welder that ain't!If you can't put a good weld on it, put alot of weld on it!
Reply:Chopper 5,Try walking the cup on your root pass.The fitup and prep are very important. What has helped me to handle this work  with the Tig process is a 3/32" tungsten (2% thoriated for carbon and stainless, Zirconiated for Aluminum) no land,tight 1/8" gap with 1/16" filler. Make sure you have enough heat and keep moving... torch 20 cfh argon.backpurge the same.... Keep your tungsten in good shape and get comfortable.. Take your time...  You didn't mention the size, wall thickness and type of pipe you are working on ... With the Miller Syncrowave I am set at between 120-130 amps DC straight pol. for sch. 40, 80 and xx wall.Brian
Reply:What I  see is the root bead profile which is too high for its width. Being an Aussie I don't have an ASME code to reference,but have taught and examined hundreds of candidates for AS1796 Pressure Vessel codes and would expect them to be quite similiar.The angle formed by your root bead on the completed  internal weld bead on our codes ( and I would it expect it would be the same on your ASME Codes ) is far to sharp. I would no doubt it will crack at that point on the reverse root bend test,The root bead is contained in a slice of pipe that is  removed and dressed and reverse cold bent with the bead outermost on the bend.The root bend  destructive test is the one  that  sorts the pros out from the wannabees. I suspect that your wire fill angles and amount of root bead fill need work here. An approach angle for the wire tangential to the pipe circumference, rather than like the hands of a clock have been sucessful for many of my students. In this way the bead edge seems to flatten out against the inside prep edges rather than bulge out spoiling the profile.Also, in the photo,I cannot detect any internal pipe clean up adjacent to the weld bead. The rust on the pipe appears to go right up to the fusion line. Some crocus paper in your fingers would be ok to get a clean finish.No grinders OK you don't want to risk any nicks or gouges in the pipe prep edge.Suck back can be a problem when the  root bead is underfilled and shrinkage by sucessive fill passes pulls the bead surface back under the pipe wall thickness.What occurrs is a reduction in pipe wall thickness- a BIG NO NO.Make yourself up a welding procedure sheet and keep a track of any changes to your variables and the effect of the variable changes.Multiple changes to different variables and effects of them, can be confusing to keep track of.I sincerely hope this is a help to yougood luck with your testGrahameLast edited by Grahame; 12-11-2006 at 03:00 PM.
Reply:thank for the help guys , i know how to fit pipe ,but my certs are for GMAW so thats how i would normaly i think i just ran to hot root i will get some more argon tomarow , the in side was cleaned 1 inch back from the joint you just cant see it in the pic,and on a side note my 2006 mustang just got towed to the shop it wont start      i miss her all ready  ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Originally Posted by chopper5thank for the help guys , i know how to fit pipe ,but my certs are for GMAW so thats how i would normaly i think i just ran to hot root i will get some more argon tomarow , the in side was cleaned 1 inch back from the joint you just cant see it in the pic,and on a side note my 2006 mustang just got towed to the shop it wont start      i miss her all ready
Reply:dont know it dont do anything at all dead checked fuses ok bat dead if i try to charge it the car sounds like the fule pump is running then it trips the breaker on my chargerChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:you should charge the battery out of your car (disconected).  sounds like a bad battery though.
Reply:ford said all they could find wrong was a dead battery they put a charge in check it out and cant tell me why it went dead there tryed to tell me i left the parking lights on , there was nothing left on that was the first thing i looked at ,so they don't know and nether do i but i think she was mad at beeing left out side wile my bro's bike is in the garage ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:chopper: that's a pretty decent root if it's your first attempt... the picture is a little hard to really diagnose any trouble spots you may have... I do see just above the 3:00 spot what looks like a lack of fusion (not breaking down the knife edge) and lack of penetration... a little heavy in a few spots (@ 12:00 especially).Again the picture is tough to really tell but it looks like an acceptable root... when you can achieve what I call the "wedding band" look inside then you can't go wrong... most QC's want to see flush or about 1/32" - 1/16" push through, suck back (a concave looking root) is not acceptable. Avoid suck back by putting a TIG hot pass (extra layer of filler) then start your stick fill and cover. I've seen much much worse roots than yours pass an ASME code x-ray & bend test. X-ray's are much more forgiving than the bend test.Not sure what you used for a gap but 3/32" gap + or - 1/32" for a proper tube/pipe test... at least that's the rules we work by in the power plant industry. Best of luck with your test and let us know how you made out.Tennessee Squire Association
Reply:thanks for the help ,the gap was 3/32 , i took a guess that it was the right gapgetting that type of info at work is like pulling teeth, none of the ASME GTAW work i did in the past was open joint ,all that was GMAW  short circuit root spray cover the GTAW was all fillet weldsChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:ok ive benn trying to get a good looking root pass ,i run the root and look and itssucked up ,so after a lot of scrap i ran a fill over and the root pushed back outall most flush ,some time this week ill refit the pipe and give it a go from start to finsh then ill look at the root in the mean time here are some pic's of the pice that makes me think i just need to finsh the hole thing be for i look at the root Attached ImagesChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:i think they look just fine! i'll make some "test runs" tomorrow and we'll compare pics.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:cool thats the kind of help i need zap if any of you guys who tig pipe got any pic's of the in side i would like to see em please ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Ok Chopper..heres what i came up with today (when i took a break from the "spindles")Herespipe with torch set up..the pipe is mild steel 2 3/8" od with a .140 wall..root pass..inside after the root pass..cover pass..inside after cover pass..i did'nt get any burn thru..it was not purged..100 amps with .045 filler..and a very acurate foot for the pedal.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:thanks zap,but i know it will not pass code you needed a small mount of the root weld in side the joint,open joint welds must be full penetrationbut thanks for trying itChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Originally Posted by chopper5thanks zap,but i know it will not pass code you needed a small mount of the root weld in side the joint,open joint welds must be full penetrationbut thanks for trying it
Reply:sa53 pipeChuckASME Pressure Vessel welderthanks.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap, I did the same thing thinking I was gonna ace my 6g. The inspector took one look at tthe cold root and a big old thumbs down. I fixed his wagon on the next one thoughDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."