Structural stick question

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Ok I am now in the advanced stick structural mod in school and I am having an issue that I think I know the answer to but I want advice first.I'm working on Trainee module 29106-03 V - Groove welds with backing in the 2G horizontal position with 3/8 plate  with a total bevel face of 45 degree's and 1/4" root gap over 1/4" backing strap.  I'm having trouble with my root passes and subsequent fill passes being lower than what I want them to be and slouching a bit on the last bead to where I get a roll over on the top half of the bead.  My push is 5 - 10 and my work on the first bead is 5 - 10 above hor and the follow up is 5 - 10 below hor and then repeating the process with the first on each new layer.  Where I think I'm making my mistake(s) at is on bead placement in that my first bead I have the stick centered right on the leading edge of the bottom plate and my thinking is that the stick should have its bottom edge on the leading edge of the plate.  My second mistake I think may be my work angle but I think its correct though my instructor recommended a dead on 90 which I don't feel comfortable in doing on a horizontal bead.  My third I'm pretty sure is travel speed on the last bead as I have adjusted the work angle all the way down to 25 below hor and I still get the roll over on the top of the bead and thin spots of slag here and there.Sorry no pics, left the camera at home and I'm to poor for a camera phone.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65mopar......................... I'm having trouble with my root passes and subsequent fill passes being lower than what I want them to be and slouching a bit on the last bead to where I get a roll over on the top half of the bead.........
Reply:Sorry I'm using 7018 1/8 rod,  the roll over is on the top side of the bead and resembles overlap, I'll be sure to take the camera with me tomorrow if the problem continues.
Reply:if it's happening on passes other than the root pass, check your interpass temperature. If you're putting too much heat into the plate the fill passes and cap especially are gonna want to sag.  A good celing would be around 600-700f off the top of my head.   I.e Don't start a new pass until it's below that temperature
Reply:At what amperage do you have the machine set at?
Reply:You mention that your instructor tells you one thing and your not doing it because your not comfortable.  I would say try it his way and see if it works.  If it doesn't work then ask him what and why it isn't working.  I would say that there shouldn't be a push in horizontal unless you are carrying a weave.  I would carry this procedure with all stringers.
Reply:I run these with a slight drag angle, just enough to stay ahead of the slag.  travel nice and slow to give it time to fill in or your going to undercut the top plate.I use a small crescent motion, but I carry the puddle out farther on the bottom plate, then move back and up a little bit to tie in with the top plate and fill it in.  Also keep your rod angle towards the top plate.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Ok well I dont have pics but I have fixed the issue albeit in a rather odd way.  First thing I did was up the temp which helped some and adjusting the drag angle to %20 helped but I still had the problem so out of frustration I changed direction from right to left to left to right and well I'm a right handed welder with a left handed travel now so go figure specially since I had no problem doing it right to left before.
Reply:Whaaaa????If you are welding with your Right hand, you should be starting to your Left, and travelling to the Right.If you are welding with your Left hand, you should be starting to your Right, and travelling to the Left.If you are just learning, and you are getting all Funky with your Body Mechanics, you are not doing yourself any favours in my very humble estimation.Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65mopar..... I still had the problem so out of frustration I changed direction from right to left to left to right and well I'm a right handed welder with a left handed travel now so go figure specially since I had no problem doing it right to left before.
Reply:Ok holding the lead in my right hand I would normally start at the right side of the plate as I'm facing it and use a push or drag travel to the left so basically if I was facing a map of the states my right hand would travel the rod from east to west which I never had a problem with before until this past week.  I guess that my shooting stance is coming into play now, when I used to do target practice I would line up with left eye and my left hand would be the trigger hand while my right would hold the rifle, that got all sorts of comments and remarks when I was a kid but it seemed natural to me because the dominate hand is more steady than my other.Ok gotta go puke, new flu bug has its hold on me.
Reply:Oh and I'm still using my right hand to travel from west to earasadf
Reply:So which is it???Post 11, You weld Right-handed from Right to Left...Post 12, You weld Right-handed from Left to Right...Not sure how anyone is supposed to help you if you keep waffling like this.Last edited by Black Wolf; 03-06-2010 at 11:55 PM.Later,Jason
Reply:Sorry I got busy with allot of stuff,Ok let me recap and clarify.When I started the program in August I was doing stick right handed from right to left no problem outside of the learning all the basics and some machine issues and this has gone on through mig and tig and mig advanced for six months.  When I started the advanced stick for structural this is when I suddenly had a problem with traveling right handed from right to left and after three days I tried doing it from left to right out of frustration and noticed that it went considerably smoother and I'm still doing it to this day and now I tend to position myself slightly to the left when doing vertical up as well as opposed to being on the right when I did it before.  I know its strange but the only thing I can figure is that I had been away from stick for about 15 weeks and had lost some of what I had learned initially and couldn't get it back.
Reply:unless the insp. says otherwise, most of them don't really care what direction you weld as long as you are uniform with you're stringer beads. the plate test you describe has a good size gap for the root. when I was teaching I had the students run the root in 2 passes. the first pass of the root is just tieing in the bot. plate to the backing plate. that was welded with a nice flat stringer bead. to get this you're elavation of the rod should be at 90deg straight in, the upper half of the rod should follow the leading edge of the lower plate. you're travel angle should be straight (on top the puddle) to just a slight push. the second pass of the root you should be pointing up into the groove that is left with a pull angle. this pass you will have to work the rod a bit and you may not be able to make it all the way with 1 rod. always running you're bottom stringers like you ran the first stringer of the root.the next beads are a slight pull. rod angle is usually like say you're chest is at 3o for the first stringer 3:15 is 2nd  3:30 is 3rd and so on never more than 4:00. the top stringer on all the fill passes you may have to work a little bit to not under-cut the top edge. what you want on a grooved plate is if you looked at the weld endo the top is just slightly more full than the bottom. that way when you get to flush you just leave the bottom edge and just break the top edge, eliminating trapping slag at the top edge. keep all your stringers light and tight which eliminates all this working of the rod.(loops and weaving). also remember when you grind up your coupons you are grinding off most of the root and most all the cap pass, so you are really bending a small amount maybe half the root and almost nothing of the cap pass.    revpol
Reply:I get it and I'm working on being able to weld right and left handed and in both directions with both hands to be more versatile.  I was able to finish the hobart topic book and passed an inspection on 3/8 plate in the 6G pos.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65mopar.........................................I was able to finish the hobart topic book and passed an inspection on 3/8 plate in the 6G pos.