HAZMAT Surcharge?

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I went to my LWS yesterday and picked up a couple of pounds of TIG rod I wanted to just have around.  I walked in the door and over to the rod display like always and found the 4043 and the ER70-S2 and as I was picking out the 1/16" a cute little sales girl asked if I needed help.  I didn't and told her I just needed a bit of rod to have "handy" and walked to the counter and tossed down my credit card.  Total time in store was under 5 minutes and total number of people in store was exactly 2.  The price seemed a bit steep, but considering it has been a few months since I last bought rod, I figured stuff had just gone up.I got home last night and was doing my paperwork when I finally looked at the sales ticket.  There it was $9.66 for the ER70-S2, $12.72 for 4043 aluminum and $4.95 Hazardous Material Fee.  "WTF!"  I was befuddled by that one.  I've been welding for 40 years and never in my life have I paid a HAZMAT fee on inert metal.I called the store this morning and talked to the sales girl who "Assure you that it is industry standard and everyone charges it" and that she did not care that I hadn't been charged the fee in December when I last bought a similar amount of rod (the invoice stated the HAZMAT fee as $0.00).  I went back to tickets from the other branch store of the same company I had used prior to re-locating to this location and found the same thing on all my transactions HAZMAT FEE $0.00.The HAZMAT fee added 23% to my purchase and I was charged sales tax on top of that, although the fee is not a material good and therefore not taxable in this state.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Hammer the store manager. Bring your old receipts, and just drill them on it. That's one of those cute little ways to steal from the customers, and LWS are notorious for it. You DO NOT pay that if you can buy it at a HD, OSH, etc..... and many welding shops do not charge that bogus fee. But you have to catch them screwing you..... and call them on it.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I've seen it charged on acetylene but not rod.  And not nearly that much.
Reply:They must be getting desperate for ways to turn a profit!!!                                        MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:It depends on who's working the counter.  Sometimes I pay hazmat, sometimes not.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:If you ask Farmer Sam he would tell you your first mistake was when the pretty girl asked you if you needed help with your rod. You should have said "it gets stiff as a steel girder" how could you help me?But yea they will and are going to try to obliterate the working man. They have nothing even with billions of dollars. They just want to drag us down with them.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:I would have a friend call them and ask for the 'young lady', then start quoting regulation numbers and such to confuse her and finally tell her that she had sold to an undercover agent last week, charged a Hazmat fee without providing a MSDS, and is subject to a $500 fine which will go up every week if not paid immediately. Tell her to report to Mr. XXX at (Give fake address in a larger nearby town), that the check needs to be made out to the Federal Treasury (or give some official agency) and request she also bring a copy of the business license. If they thought only one can play, they should find out that two or more can have a turn....
Reply:I was wondering about this when I bought a 10lb box of 7018ac rods the other day at airgas.  I was going to buy 2 5lb boxes because I dont use them that fast, and the guy said he would give me a good deal on the 10lb box.  So i said ok, and he took 30% off the 10lb box (think it cost ~25 bucks or something) then I look at the receipt when i get home and there is a hazmat fee on there for $5.  What the hell is hazardous about a steel rod with some powdered iron on it sealed in a box sealed in plastic wrap!!!  I have a Ph.D. in organic chemistry.... i think i would know a haz. material if i saw one.  Maybe next time i go to autozone and get some carb cleaner i should pay them an extra couple of bucks for storing this hazardous material for me.I like the idea of the MSDS.  Next time I go to buy some rod if i am charged a haz mat fee i am going to ask to speed to the manager and ask how its possible that they are selling haz mats without providing a MSDS and informing you of the dangers involved.  i would also like to know what exactly this fee is going towards.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hank33I've seen it charged on acetylene but not rod.  And not nearly that much.
Reply:Yeah,Airgas is scamming customers.  I asked them if it was a government required fee, because it was added to something like a pair of welding gloves or something non hazardous, and they said no, but it was company policy.  Its a revenue enhancer for the company and its a despicable tactic, and hits the small guys hard.  I bet you won't find a Hazmat fee on any 1 million dollar customer's invoice.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:HazMat fees are nothing but a dirty scam eun by supliers who want the customer to pay their liability premium as a seperate line item rather than as part of the price.The dolt on the counter is trained (because he's a dumb animal) to say the law requires it.  Fine, show me the law.  You can't, take that line off my bill or I'll play games on your company that will get your sorry A$$ unemployed and cost your company lots of money dealing with the State Attorney General who just loves to extort large settlements from small companies.  Now run tell your manager I recorded every misrepresentation you just made and see how that flys.This crap only flys because people allow it to fly!
Reply:Oh, and for OldIron2's suggestions? Let me see, do the terms fraud, impersonation, wire fraud, and any number of other charges the persecutors can dream up, ring any bells. Best thing I can do is contact the state Department of Revenue and report the sales tax thing and then file a "Price Gouging" complaint with the State Attorney General's office.
Reply:Praxair does the same,all it really does is drive little people to the big box store or tractor supply etc. and the internet for everything possible.Matt
Reply:OH CRAP! I read this and went in the office to look up my invoices and guess what? Praxair has been charging me a hazmat fee. It look like just on filler metal. Now I know why prices are not listed on receipts. I get the receipt and my wife gets the invoice. She says, did you charge at Praxair? I say, yep. And she pays the bill. I will be calling them tomorrow and if I can't purchase without a HM fee, then I will cancel my acct. I could be stupid enough to believe a HM fee on gasses, but not filler metal."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:I deal w/ airgas too. Just what SHOULD the HM fee apply to LEGALLY??                                 TIA,                                        MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I spoke to the boss at my LWS briefly this morning; they are charged Hazmat fees by the State of California for gases (I know for the bottles; don't know about the large CO2 or N2 Dewars) but not for electrodes, flux, gloves or other normal supplies. They do pass on all or part of the fee for bottles of gas, and make sure the customer understands it. I suppose that state laws (including case law) regulate whether such a fee is allowed to be charged for non-hazardous supplies; some states probably would say it is an inaccurate description and thus in violation of labeling laws, or that it is a fee for a service not supplied.
Reply:You been robbed!!!!!!!I pay exactly 1.50 hazmat on bottled gas per cylinder...........period!!!!!!!!  Never heard of a hazmat fee on rods Anybody pulled that crap on me, and they could keep the merch "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:You been around a while, you know people who answer question.1, most purchasing people are stupid & will sign off on anything 2, most retail customers will accept whatever crap you lay on them & be happy about it.  Look what the LWS charges small customers for gas & consumables.3, damn few customers know there are 5 price colums4, retail customers need us more than we need them, and they ain't profitable5 MOST IMPORTANT just like airline fees our fees aren't taxable income!!
Reply:Yes, Praxair does charge hazmat fees on just about everything used in the welding process I buy there, that's why I always look for alternatives.  There's an independently owned auto parts store nearby that also sells welding supplies.  They buy most of their gases from Praxair but don't charge a hazmat fee on them, much less on tig rod.  That's why I try to buy what I can from them.  When I'm pricing stuff on the phone, I always ask what the total is with any hazmat fees so I can do a fair price comparison.  Only if they understand that their hazmat fee policies stand in the way of making a profit will they reduce or get rid of them on the items no one is buying.I agree that hazmat fees, under the guidance of corporate attorneys, have become simple revenue enhancement.  Shop wisely.ScottMiller XMT 350 CC/CV w/gas solenoid opt.Miller S-22A wirefeederBernard 400A "Q" gunMiller Spoolmatic 30A / WC-24C-K 200A torch/gas lensWeldcraft WC-18 watercooled torchHypertherm Powermax 30Victor O/A
Reply:I sent my wife to pickup a couple packages of tungsten. They charged her a per piece hazmat fee! She paid more in fees than the tungsten cost. When I called they said it was state law or some garbage and wouldn't budge. I found a different supplier.
Reply:I sent my wife to pickup a couple packages of tungsten. They charged her a per piece hazmat fee! She paid more in fees than the tungsten cost. When I called they said it was state law or some garbage and wouldn't budge. I found a different supplier.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2Did you return the first order, and tell them why?
Reply:I recently went to my LWS to purchase some 4043 TIG wire. I needed it for a small side job I was doing and to just have it around in case I need it later. Well the company I work for is a large client with this supply store so I got a huge discount on the wire. When I got home I looked over the receipt and found that I too had a HAZMAT charge for $1.45. Now since my discount was pretty good and I haven't purchased any consumables / wire in a long while, I figured this was just a new thing and didn't think anything of it. I know that I will be talking to my boss soon to make sure we are not getting charged this crap on anything else. I'll make sure I will pay attention next time.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireI sent my wife to pickup a couple packages of tungsten. They charged her a per piece hazmat fee! She paid more in fees than the tungsten cost. When I called they said it was state law or some garbage and wouldn't budge. I found a different supplier.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireNope. I needed the tungsten and simply didn't have the time to drive 50 miles one way to return it. This was the first time I had encountered a fee so I kinda swallowed hard figured it was another crazy state tax. Turns out the state has a fee but it's only 0.7% on the wholesale value of hazardous materials. I guess some companies are absorbing the fees in the price while others are adding hazmat surcharges. Most of these hazmat fees appear to be well above the amount required to collect.This is for Washington State:http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=82.21.030RCW 82.21.030Pollution tax.(1) A tax is imposed on the privilege of possession of hazardous substances in this state. The rate of the tax shall be seven-tenths of one percent multiplied by the wholesale value of the substance.     (2) Moneys collected under this chapter shall be deposited in the toxics control accounts under RCW 70.105D.070.     (3) Chapter 82.32 RCW applies to the tax imposed in this chapter. The tax due dates, reporting periods, and return requirements applicable to chapter 82.04 RCW apply equally to the tax imposed in this chapter.Based on my simple logic... if the fee is charged based on the wholesale value... the fee is intended for the wholesale not retail customer.