Torch Vs Wire Feed

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Hey yall...Im 16 (almost 17 lol) and im really getting into this welding thing... I have alot of time on my hands out on the farm this summer, and ive decided i really wanna get into welding some more...All i dont have alot of is money, and im really wanting something new to play with...This local guy (for lack of a better word, half farmer, half mechanic, part tractor jockey and a little hillbilly) that i know is going through his shop, and offered me a torch set, consisting of everything i need to start burning my fingers off, the torch, the bottles, the hoses and regulators, ect, even a cart....But im wondering if i should take this thing, or would i be better off spending that money on a wire feed welder, flux core or mig or something...I know a little stick, and ive only used a mig welder once at a buddies place, so i dont know anything about that, nor do i torch or flux. Ive got a ton (several tons actually) of old farm equipment here, steel and cast iron to practice with. Any ideas on which i should go with???One thing im really liking about the torch is i can cut stuff up with it, and haul it in for scrap and make a little money off that. I do have a truck and a lisence... My thoughts are, i could get the torch, cut some junk up, practice on it with stick and torch welding, then take it in, and eventually end up with enough to pick up a good used mig welder off craigslist or something...I really like working on old tractors and trucks, if that makes a difference anywheres... But i really need to get whatevers best for starters, i dont have alot to work with here...Any advice??
Reply:Hey Lance.  Good to hear from you again.Depending on what that guy wants for the O/A set up you can - as you already mentioned - look at it from the standpoint you'll not only be able to cut stuff up with it but also gas weld it back together.  The original multi-process 'machine'.What's he asking for it if you don't mind saying?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Hello Lanse, if you are trying to go this on your own for right now, your plan seems reasonable enough. The nice thing about the torch is, as you mentioned, you can cut and weld with it. However, if you don't have any formal education or training on it you should try to get some resources to check out some of the safety and start-up techniques that should be heeded. www.millerwelds.com has some great online information, I believe Lincoln has some similar types of information as well, www.lincolnwelding.com. Pay close attention to the safety issues relating to oxy-fuel or acetylene use and application, carelessness can get you hurt or worse very easily. I believe the fact that you recognize that you could start out with the oxy-fuel set-up and gain skills as well as scrap and earn money for additional welding equipment is a good basic plan. I am sure others will have additional suggestions and information for your consideration. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:$250 ready to roll :-)What will the bottles cost me to get filled abouts??? Im no longer in michigan... I moved back to southern ohio, in the dayton area, with my mom...Thanks for the input guys.....If i had a fun weekend of cutting up scrap planned, would it be cheaper to use propane?? Is that something i could do with a regular o-a torch??Ill check out them sites...Id imagine that much gas would make a pretty impressive boom if something went wrong...
Reply:Hello Lanse, depending on the bottle sizes and the torch brand that could be a very fair deal, just be sure they are private cylinders and not leased or rental ones. If you don't know for sure you might need to check with your local welding supplier to determine which type they are. Also, if you can, try to find out the sizes of the bottles and post them here for the folks to give you an idea of their worth, pictures don't hurt either. As to refilling cost, that's sometimes an area specific sort of thing, yet in most cases they are pretty reasonable to refill. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Originally Posted by LanseMy thoughts are, i could get the torch, cut some junk up, practice on it with stick and torch welding, then take it in, and eventually end up with enough to pick up a good used mig welder off craigslist or something...
Reply:I agree that it's the O2 cylinder that counts. Yes you could, and probably should, use propane.Just to give you an idea Lanse, at as-is sales it's common to see decent USA torch heads for $40 and  decent miscellaneous USA  regulators for $20 or so. Older but good industrial-quality complete matched sets without tanks for maybe around $100.So the value in the $250 deal would have to be in a refillable O2 tank and knowing that the equipment is good quality and in working order.Good Luck
Reply:I think your idea is sound. OA while not the most practical for many jobs, OA welding will give you good experience for other processes. With basic brazing you can easily assemble a number of starter projects.$250 for the torch set is fair possibly depending on what's exactly included and the size of the cylinders. My 100cf O2 cyl "new" ran almost $180 full, the 75cf acet about $135 or so IIRC. Then add the torch regs hose etc new or used.If you keep your eyes open at yardsales and CL you can find old AC tombstone stick machines for $50-100 fairly regular. Save up your scrap money you make with the torch and get one and you will be all set for a variety of small farm jobs. The OA lets you heat and bend as well as cut, and the stick is good for putting things together..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Lanse.One has to start somewhere. It's a really good place to start - using O/A."Impressive boom if something went wrong".  Yes, up to around ten miles away. Unfotunately, you would never hear it. Someone else will be looking for parts of what used to be you, after the fire is put out. As mentioned before - Read up on ALL the safety precautions. Is it set up with arrestors? Please, please, please read up on confined spaces.Wear cotton clothing and long sleeves - no poly stuff. Get leathers, gloves and boots that go above the ankles. It really stinks, in more ways than one, when molten metal drops in your shoe and kinda makes you not want to have anything rubbing on your foot for a couple of weeks.Also, there are a LOT of potential fire hazards around the farm. Be aware of your surroundings. Get some GOOD fire extinguishers and a metal pump sprayer and fill with water. Have them within reach of where you are working.Have Fun - Learn (the easy way) - Be Safe.
Reply:Well Lanse, way back in the time of having to fight off the dinosor to get to the machine that needed fixing I started with a gas torch and managed to get done the things that needed doing.  That torch bought me a Lincoln toumbstone and the pair bought me my first used SA 200, and from there on it was a money making proposition.Honestly I can't think of a better way to learn welding than starting off with a torch.  You'll learn a lot of things from puddle control to heat management and when the day comes you pick up the fires TIG torch you'll find you are driving a torch with an accelorator peddle.You've already been told about the safety issues, and the only thing I'll add is remember you'll be working alone without anyone behind you to bail you out if you screw up.  Think before you act!The price you were offered is a good deal if the tanks are owned and refillable.  Even if you have to pay for recertification the deal is good IF the torch is supportable in terms of parts availability and the hose is good.  Bear in mind you can buy a brand new Hobart torch with regulators for $200- as your benchmark.  Propane is NOT a bargain for cutting when you factor in the additional Oxygen required.  The only advantage is propane will cut rusty crap and multiple layers easier.  Like anything else for every step forward there are generally 2 back.Far as MIG is concerned for the time being forget about them HotGlue guns.
Reply:Craigslist is your friend... but you cannot be in a hurry. for what you want to do... get the largest bottles you can afford. make sure you can get them filled before purchasing. cost to fill large bottle is barely more than smaller bottles. most desirable are Ox bottles about 5ft tall ... be careful as some companies only lease those type bottles and stay property of welding gas company. smaller bottles are commonly user owned, so less problems getting those filled. again...buyer bewarealmost impossible to find 5ft bottles with no marking on neck. pay attention to test dates and name stamped on/near neck. if you can get a copy of receipt the last time bottles were filled, proving ownership. but say 10+ years later... count on receipt being lost. best company to deal with in terms of getting your bottle filled is Airgas. they probably own the largest number of bottles formerly owned by gas companies gone out of business. if you find a large bottle refillable by Airgas ... then you've got a good one. Airgas sells used 5ft ox bottles, so they cannot say with certainty that bottle belongs to them. so they usually will fill/exchange bottles with little fuss. expect to pay extra for testing if bottle is out of date.Last edited by _CY_; 05-31-2010 at 05:30 PM.52, 59 & 66 Lincoln SA200, Tombstone Idealarc 250, Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 50, Marquette 250 amp mig, Miller 330 A/BP
Reply:I agree on the torch first. It's they way I learned. I bought my first torch at 13. A year later my great uncle "loaned" me his cracker box (I still have it). For farm work I don't think you would go wrong with the torch then cracker box. After that you can start upgrading. I finally retired my first torch about 1 1/2 months ago. It served me well for 32 years.  I'd definitely want to have acetylene around if only for the welding capability. But for scrapping steel propane is definitely cheaper (especially with the prices of acetylene currently). Propane works ok for heating and cutting. It's possible to flow braze with it as well but you'll definitely need acetylene for anything more.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:And after you make some money on scrap, remember you can find/buy alot more stick welder for less money than you can mig from ebay. For example, I found my buddy an old Lincoln Idealarc 250 for $102.50. That welder will handle everything and more than you will ever need from it."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:the red lincoln idealarc 250 tombstone AC/DC stick welder is one of the best welders at any price. paid $390 for mine and thought it was a bargain....  there's all sorts of stories of folks getting em for cheap...  Originally Posted by Stick-manFor example, I found my buddy an old Lincoln Idealarc 250 for $102.50. That welder will handle everything and more than you will ever need from it.
Reply:......52, 59 & 66 Lincoln SA200, Tombstone Idealarc 250, Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 50, Marquette 250 amp mig, Miller 330 A/BP