Yippeeeee...... New project will be here in the morning.

admin

Well, I have been seeing a few post on the board dealing with trailers, so I thought I would post my new project.  Ain't it nice! Attached ImagesI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Notice the nice bend in the frame rails... The front section, and the middle section should be parallel.    This is what happens when the cable on the mill crane breaks and drops the grapple and the whole load of  timber crossways on the frame.    I am still doing a little research as to the best course of action, but as of right now it's looking like 3ft will have to be cut out and replaced.  Then stress plates welded in on each side of the beam......   This one will take a few days.  I'll start posting pics as soon as we start cutting on her....  ~Jackson Attached ImagesI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Looks like a fun job Hammack. I can see that the project is definitely going that take some thought. Looks like the whole frame has some bend in it. Keep us up to date.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Nah, just use the BFH and tap it back into shape!  Turn trailer over, crib up the ends, and drop another load of timber and the grapple crosswise onto the arch and straighten that puppy back out.More seriously, if the steel bent then it is may be toast material-wise.  Contact the original trailer manufacturer and find out the material specs and their service repair limits for yielded materials.Like Zap says, you touch it then your are IT!And with the frame bent that badly I'd be leery of the axles, suspension, tires, wheels, wheel studs, etc, etc.  You get the idea.Just bent (badly) and NO cracks or breaks anywhere?Last edited by MoonRise; 07-23-2007 at 06:48 PM.
Reply:You get all the fun jobs...   ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Nice one.  It ought be a fun one.  Big stuff, lotsa Prep and welding.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseMore seriously, if the steel bent then it is may be toast material-wise.  Contact the original trailer manufacturer and find out the material specs and their service repair limits for yielded materials.Like Zap says, you touch it then your are IT!And with the frame bent that badly I'd be leery of the axles, suspension, tires, wheels, wheel studs, etc, etc.  You get the idea.Just bent (badly) and NO cracks or breaks anywhere?
Reply:yes this one will take a few days.  I have replaced frame sections in these before.  It's actually not to uncommon around here.  They either get twisted by the drivers or crushed by the crane grapples.  The bad section runs from the tubing upright (with NML painted on it) back to a few inches past where the top of the frame rails turn upward.  Actually it's only about 24"-30"  right below the middle set of uprights in the 1st pic.  I pulled a string down the frames on each side of the bend and they are straight as an arrow.  Hell the axles are steel even inline, and no visual damage to them anywhere.  I don't know how, but all of the damage seems to be located in that one short section.  There are some stress breaks in the section, and the webs of the beams buckled out to give way and allow the nose to bow up.  After looking closely I think parts of the braces in the failed section could have been cracked previously allowing that spot to be the weakest link so to speak. The axles actually did not take to much beating.  The driver told me the load landed right on top of the landing gear, and I am thinking it hit the ground and supported the trailer since it is only 6"-8" off the ground to start with.  The truck actually caught more abuse than did the rear of the trailer.  However the owner is going to have the mechanic come out and pull the axles while I am working on it, and go thru all of them.  He said it was time to do it anyway.  As far as calling the manufacturer, you won't get anywhere with them.  To start with they don't have anyone there but trained trigger pullers, and not real good ones at that.  besides they repair as well as fabricate, and consider any of us out here as competition.  What I do know is that the trailer frame is made from completely mild steel.  mainly a 16" "I" beam  with the web cut and flanges bent and rewelded to the profile they want.  Trust me, if i had ANY doubt about this job I would turn it away.  I can guarantee that it would not be the first one, or the last to be turned down.  This is actually a simple wreck compared to some I have dealt with in the past.  I know the end result I need, just now trying to decide which of the several ways I want to take to get there.  ~JacksonLast edited by Hammack_Welding; 07-23-2007 at 07:57 PM.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:I used to work in a trailer manufacture shop building flat decks and loggers. I do have formal training on how to weld, I have a C Ticket and i hate to admit it, most of the guys (not me) were trained on the job at the old shop. They had their own weld tests and procedures to help the welder get to the appropriate pay scale. For some applications only the highest level of welder could weld.      Part of the reason I left was how I wanted to weld with other processes, and learn to fabricate better, and I was goin to a Job that paid twice as much, a job im leaving in 2 weeks but thats another story.     Anyhow ill let you into a secret, i cannot tell you the name of the company but ill briefly describe a few procedures. The flat bar used for the flange had the end of it died red and come to think of it, the color if the steel had almost dark purple-red color to it,it was kindof a hard steel. the gas we used was 92 argon 8 co2. Mostly with S-6 .045 wire, but for welding the flat bar of the flanges together we used Lincolns LA-90. we would cut the pieces at 45 degrees and then Vee'd them out so when we welded it we could do a proper root pass fill and cap. if i were to do it again id probably use run off tabs to help.     yea often times i miss that old job, but ill just remember it as a good place to start out. Hope i was of some help and if i can help anymore let me know.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Thanks for the info Doug,  Just curious but if this was one of your trailers bent like this, what would be your opinion on repairing?  I have always been curious as to whether others run into as many and frequent repairs on these trailers as we do around here.  I wonder if it is the design, or fabrication or just one of those things...   Don't get me wrong, I am not applying what I said to All trailers shops, but the one this trailer came from, is fairly locally owned single shop company, and I've seen too much that got out of it that I could not have let slide.  Hell, there was once they had shortage of workers and hired a bunch of part time kids from the trade school, and trailers were falling apart all over the place.   I know there are some good fab shops building trailers.   I have a few friends running a couple of those shops scattered around.  The reason I know the material used in the trailers is because they buy from the same distributor I do, and I have talked to the salesman about it.  See these frames don't have a new flange welded on.  The web of the beam is cut out (notched) and the original flange is then heated and and bent to fit the cut of the web if that makes since.  I do appreciate the input, and if i run into anything unexpected I will definitely be looking for ya.  ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:As far as calling the manufacturer, you won't get anywhere with them. To start with they don't have anyone there but trained trigger pullers, and not real good ones at that. besides they repair as well as fabricate, and consider any of us out here as competition.
Reply:when i was making plate, we used to make specialty cuts for great dane. 53' long and 55" wide. the material was A572 GR80. they would take the plates and roll them into the beams used in their trailers. some other companies used A572 GR60 p/o plate. never made plates for logging ops that i know of."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Jackson, no worries man, I understand what you ment, my parents own a truckstop and i asked a few of the drivers about the company i used to work for and they said they were great trailers to pull. plus its one of the major trailer companys in canada. The shop I worked at only dealt with new fabrication but often times a guy would weld something in a wrong spot, use the wrong jig you know, screw up, and you would have to fix it. LOL i remember when i trucker came in mad and backed his truck with a load of wood on it right into the shop and started yellin about his bumper being 8 inches to one side LOL it had went all that way and nobody noticed! But if i had saw the trailer youve got right there come in id probably A) try to heat a wide section of the top flange and taper the heat like a V down the web and let the weight pull it back down then weld some plates to stiffen it up both sides or B) do what you would do, cut out the bent section, weld in a new section, fishplate it to make sure its secure. Also dont forget to run a 50 foot tape from the center of the king pin to the corners of the first set of axle hangers, to make sure you keep the wheel alignment fairly close. Thats my idea about it.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:The manufacturer may have a bunch of trigger pullers, but they better have a real licensed engineer (as in Professional Engineer, one with a PE license) either on staff or who designed and stamped the design.  That's all part of the liability chain.They might not want to talk to you, true.If you -know- what the material is and YOUR liability policy can handle it, go to it.  Anything even -remotely- iffy on the trailer after you work on it, fix it.  Cause liability-wise, you touched it so you are IT.Anything bent or cracked, replace it.  Cut out the main bent section past the bends and replace and fishplate it.Looking forward to seeing how the job unfolds (or unbends!)
Reply:Just flip it upside-down and drop a load of logs on it again, should straighten right out and let you take a few days off work. But seriously you're more of a man than I am for tackling that.
Reply:nice project I sure you will fix it just right I've seen what you done before so you'll be right if you can find a way to tie down the front and back down then pump it up straight would be a good starting point then start cutting bits out its not as bad a job as it looks this a chassis I had to fix a while back  Creative metal Creative metal Facebook
Reply:I knew you would be popping in before long wello, That's a nice frame, Dang I hate one that's twisted!  Honestly, This is probably one of the more simple frame bend that I have run across.  Usually nothing is straight like this one is.    The trailer just showed up.  We let the landing gear down, and the nose is about a foot too high.  I am going to put hydraulic jacks under the middle of the bends, and cut down the frame until I hit the bottom web of the beam.  Then lift up on the jacks until it levels back out.  Then weld in a piece of channel along the top web to hold it while I cut the bent section out.  Not sure how much cutting I will get done today, but i will keep pics coming as I progress.  Thanks for the input.   ~JacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:I guess it must be for weight savings, but I've looked and looked at the pics and I can't figure why the frame rails have the least amount of height at the point where they have the most stress. Is there something I'm not seeing?                           MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:That's a nice fixer-upper, what are the weapons of choice for repair? - welder- amps- rod- grinder- cutterJohn -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by wellonice project I sure you will fix it just right I've seen what you done before so you'll be right if you can find a way to tie down the front and back down then pump it up straight would be a good starting point then start cutting bits out its not as bad a job as it looks this a chassis I had to fix a while back
Reply:Well the work has been put off for a few days....................  insurance company wants a few pictures of the damage since they are actually paying for this job.  Now i have to wait on an adjuster to come by.  mla2ofus, yes you are right they build these trailers as light as possible, and still be able to hold the load.  The lighter the trailer the more wood they can haul without going over the weight limit.  These guys get paid on tons, not loads, so the more tons hauled the more money they make.  As far as weapons of choice go, I am honestly not sure yet.  I thought about using a mig, but probably going to go with stick as I always seem to do.  I just don't trust it like I do a low hydrogen on this type of stuff.  Not sure why I even have the migs,   I will probably run the root passes with a 3/32 7018, and then cap off with a 1/8 7018 at around 140 amps.  The thickest parts of the trailer are only 1/2" thick, and that's the flanges of the beams.  The web is only 5/16-3/8 thick.  All joints will be beveled on both sides for full penetration.  I might weld the plates on with the mig just for heck of it.  This job will be done outside so weather will also be a deciding factor as to process.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Good decision about the stick.  I always weld frames with stick.  I had ONE thing break that I had to go redo.  It was a shank on an excavator bucket.  A big one.  I welded it on with my wirematic 250.  Didn't get enough penetration even though it looked great.  One of the 5 shanks broke off.  I knew I should have used 7018 in the first place.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Yep - you should've used the Stinkin' Lincoln G7 !  ...just bored in the chat...alone...sniff, sniff.  oh - copyright MicroZone.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com