Welding schools? Good or bad?

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I wonder about some welding schools. I work with two guys who both finished a year at least of supposedly good welding schools. All I ever get from them is you cant do this or cant do that. Safety is fine but you can run it in the ground. And they dont tie there welds together or fill out their welds to the base metal height and then they get mad when I ask them why they dont finish welding them. They must not have taught them how to prepare for the cap. I wonder which is the best, going to school or just working in a few different shops. I didnt have the internet like they do now and I think I have done well. They say they have a card showing they are certified. I have them too but they dont mean anything because they will test them just like they will me. What are your thoughts on this? P.S. Someone ought to tell them also that they cant learn it all in 1 or 2 years.  Experience is a good teacher.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderskelterI wonder about some welding schools. I work with two guys who both finished a year at least of supposedly good welding schools. All I ever get from them is you cant do this or cant do that. Safety is fine but you can run it in the ground. And they dont tie there welds together or fill out their welds to the base metal height and then they get mad when I ask them why they dont finish welding them. They must not have taught them how to prepare for the cap. I wonder which is the best, going to school or just working in a few different shops. I didnt have the internet like they do now and I think I have done well. They say they have a card showing they are certified. I have them too but they dont mean anything because they will test them just like they will me. What are your thoughts on this? P.S. Someone ought to tell them also that they cant learn it all in 1 or 2 years.  Experience is a good teacher.
Reply:I took some classes at a community college. I think that as long as you keep things in perspective and take everything with a grain of salt there is never a class or course that is a bad idea. If  you have the time and can swing the $ , why not?Just another clown trying to be cool
Reply:i would just buy a welder and practice at home. and practice some more. then more and more.  along the way just keep asking questions, and practice some more.
Reply:Depending upon where you live, you probably are already paying a substantial amount to your area community college(thru taxes) of which a lot  have good welding courses. Usually the cost there (C.C.) to you is not much more than electricity you would use and the wire consumed in training. Visit you local C.C. welding department and look it over. It depends upon what you put into it, IMHO. Not affiliated, nor a paid commerical. LOL
Reply:Taking classes has taught me quite a bit.  Classes gave me practice and access to machines that I did not have at home.  It also gave me feedback on how good my welds were and how to improve them.Certification can be entirely different.  I have seen people become AWS certified that could not weld anything outside of that certification test.  The school taught them how to weld for a test, not much use in any welding outside of those parameters.Miller 185Lincoln Weldanpower 225Lincoln 225 buzz boxCheap-o C&H 110v (my first welder)
Reply:I wish I had the benefit of formal training.Lot of wasted time learning how to do it right.Granted, there's some bad teaching out there, like in all fields.  But at least it's a platform to work fromWhen you "learn", you learn from the mistakes of others without having to repeat them for yourself"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Learning can come from different sources too.I'd gladly serve as a few guys grinder bichs to learn their secrets.Seen the work, and like it.A mentor is your most valuable resource in this world.  Might be some things you throw out with the bathwater, but the foundation is priceless."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Having been around damn near half a century, I'll say a few things about not only welding schools, but most all so called trade schools.  90% of them are run by hustlers who are about 2 cuts below a used car salesman.  All they give a damn about is collecting tuition, and bull****ting the students they sign up.  I've run across more damn graduates of these programs than I can count, and have yet to find one who is worth 5 bucks an hour in the real world.  They all claim to be experts, and want to take a day to make a weld that ain't worth 10 minutes in the real world.  They been completely mindbent by the so called school.As to being certified, everybody & everything claims to be certified for the last 10 years.  There is even some damn bunch of crooks passing out diplomas & "certification" to autobody repairmen who spend 3 hours learning to MIG on a car door.  Those damn certs ain't worth the paper they are printed on, and somebody ought to be getting locked up for fraud.
Reply:I think working under some guidance is better than working and learning alone as it wastes time.wii recepteur
Reply:Originally Posted by Old Fart . . . As to being certified, everybody & everything claims to be certified for the last 10 years.  There is even some damn bunch of crooks passing out diplomas & "certification" to autobody repairmen who spend 3 hours learning to MIG on a car door.  Those damn certs ain't worth the paper they are printed on, and somebody ought to be getting locked up for fraud.
Reply:It's as much the students fault as the schools in my opinion. Half of the ones I see don't want to continue learning once they get out. The half(half may be optimistic) that come out of school hoping to learn even more on the job are the ones who make it. I personally, have never been to a welding class in my life. I mentioned I might want to go back to school to a coworker at one of my first jobs. He laughed is *** off and told me I was better off just working next to him. He was right. I've learned more from a handfull of coworkers than I could have imagined.
Reply:Try to find out how much real world experience the instructor has. I was lucky, my instructor had done 25 years with the Boilermakers and some structural steel construction, then decided to teach when he got tired of traveling. Many very good tips and pointers you may not find in a book.
Reply:I support the idea of formal training but from what I'm hearing, it's really hit and miss out there.  The same as what JeffB just stated, here in British Columbia, a lot of the instructors are indeed men with 20-30 years experiance who have pulled their pension.  Our problem here is that the gov't wants out of the instruction business and is aiming towards  employer/apprenticeship training.  IMHO, a new welder needs hands on booth time and it would take an ideal employer to allow him that time.
Reply:Originally Posted by i4sillypwrIt's as much the students fault as the schools in my opinion.
Reply:I will side step the question somewhat as to not duplicate the answers already given....For new, or up and coming welders, I believe that MENTORSHIP is the key.  Having an experienced set of eyes, ears, and hands to help guide you as you learn is valuable beyond a dollar amount.I disagree with statements that suggest you should just purchase a welder, and sit down by yourself anf practice, practice, practice.... simply because if you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.... WHY Practice doing it WRONG?Practice is only of use if it re-inforces the lessons learned from Mentorship.In today's day and age "Mentorship" can take many forms:1) Experienced Tradespeople.in the form of on the job training or Apprenticeship.2) Technical or Vocational Schools and Colleges3) Written Resources by Lincoln Electric, Miller Electric, Hobart Institute etc...4) Off the shelf "How To" Videos from reputable sources - Ron Covell etc.The individual will learn the MOST from #1 in the shortest amount of time. Hands Down.#2 is a paid replacement for #1.  Technical and course based - Not as complete or well-rounded as #1, but better than by yourself.#3 and #4 should be used together for the quickest learning curve, but they will pale in comparison to the first two choices.Speaking as a Professional Tradesman, I learned so much more from the Journeymen that Mentored me, than was ever taught from a textbook.... and out of Respect and Appreciation for what they did for me, I freely pass down my knowledge and experience to any Apprentices assigned to me, or to co-workers, or friends that wish to learn more.It gives me the opprotunity to ensure that they are using the processes correctly, AND safely.That is my $.02 on this topic.As always, opinions vary.Later,Jason
Reply:Welding was one of those things that I always wanted to do, and took the first step about 6 years ago.   I found an adult evening class at the local vo-tech (high school) and signed up, I think it cost about $125.  It was held once a week for maybe 9 weeks. We could use the metal and do projects.  That was the best move I could have made!   I  do read a lot, but still the idea of doing it and someone showing me means so much more.   I finally got a mig welder a few years later and have done several projects for me and my family.   Still practicing!   Two years ago, I took a class at Lincoln welding school since they had a one week MIG class.  I had to sign up months in advance because they kept filling up in the last few weeks before a class started, and I had to plan time off from my regular job.  I was disappointed in that class but I still learned lots.  It gave me new experiences with equipment that I normally would not have seen.  Oh, the reason the class filled up was there was always a group moving through and that was one of their sessions.  Ten would move up to the class all at once.  The entire course would take something like 16 weeks, so they had most of their training when they took their first session with stick for 6 weeks.  That was my disapointment - I thought everyone was there to learn mig but it was more a week to "experience" it for them.   The students were great, they offered me many tips and that made it worthwhile.  Now that I have had some official training and know what it what (well, at this level....) my next "course" will be to go out and buy a couple hundred dollars worth of hot rolled  plate, sheet, and angle and practice, practice, practice as someone already mentioned.  But with out the official training, I would not know what to do, so I am glad for it all. In about 3 more years, my goal is  to go public and start a second career, part time.
Reply:in order to learn how to weld you must burn rods. but having someone around that can tell you what your doing wrong and what to do to fix it will make the biggest difference in the world. im only 18 but i spent the last two years of my life working my butt off at a 4 hour a day votech class and my teacher never would tell me what i was doing wrong so it took me twice as long to catch on and i still have alot to learn. i leave in a few days to go to tulsa welding school. has anyone heard anything on this school?
Reply:Originally Posted by dbartonin order to learn how to weld you must burn rods. but having someone around that can tell you what your doing wrong and what to do to fix it will make the biggest difference in the world. im only 18 but i spent the last two years of my life working my butt off at a 4 hour a day votech class and my teacher never would tell me what i was doing wrong so it took me twice as long to catch on and i still have alot to learn. i leave in a few days to go to tulsa welding school. has anyone heard anything on this school?
Reply:Originally Posted by dbartonin order to learn how to weld you must burn rods. but having someone around that can tell you what your doing wrong and what to do to fix it will make the biggest difference in the world. im only 18 but i spent the last two years of my life working my butt off at a 4 hour a day votech class and my teacher never would tell me what i was doing wrong so it took me twice as long to catch on and i still have alot to learn. i leave in a few days to go to tulsa welding school. has anyone heard anything on this school?
Reply:I'm in the Jr college class for Stick right now, a 5 week summer course... I'm learning a lot, and the biggest change for me, rather than just practicing at my shop... I am WAY safer... so maybe I'll be around to learn more  My bud, mentor is an insipration and has helped me a lot too.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfFor new, or up and coming welders, I believe that MENTORSHIP is the key.  Having an experienced set of eyes, ears, and hands to help guide you as you learn is valuable beyond a dollar amount.I disagree with statements that suggest you should just purchase a welder, and sit down by yourself anf practice, practice, practice.... simply because if you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.... WHY Practice doing it WRONG?
Reply:The link in my earlier post is no longer accessible. The thread was unlocked and moved to the "Off Topic Bar & Grill" today. To gain access to it follow the instructions in this thread.http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=25481jrw159
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireI still believe in buying tools and diving in but if you can find someone or a class that can help it will certainly cut down your learning curve and improve your technique.
Reply:The links I posted concerning Tulsa Welding School are no longer accessible to people that are not signed up. If you are interested in viewing it you will have to sign into the forum then go to this link to get access to the OTB&G section where the thread resides currently. http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=21937To make a long story a little shorter, TWS has been exposed for some of their shortcomings and questionable tactics. They are doing their best at damage control trying to cover it up. In my opinion TWS is a very expensive way to get the "Master Welder" designation that those of us in the industry more commonly refer to as "Beginner". Buyer beware.jrw159Well my experience so far is that its best to get into either a job or a school that knows what its doing and teaches correctly.  While I have had some issues with the school I'm in I have a good instructor who has had 17 years of ship yard welding experience and while I have questioned some of his direction he has always been on the money.  A few years ago I went to work for Kubota down in Georgia as a welder and they were supposed to train me on mig welding, that consisted of someone setting up my machine then telling me to play around with the amps and then walking away.
Reply:i was interested in welding so i went to a really good school and requested to get into the class with the instrutor the local unions recommended. i spent six months learning to weld pipe. i passed and got my tickets and now i am in the boiler makers pre-appreticeship program for 9 weeks.  i know that i have a good base of welding skills to start with but i realize i will learn more on the job from a journeymen than i ever did in the booth at school. the schooling helped open up some doors. i had those guys in my class and they thought they new it all and they are still not working. my first day we were told keep your mouth shut and nobody cares what you think you know and you will be taught everything you need to know regardless of what tickets you have. nobody likes a hero who knows it all. i am just learning everything i can.
Reply:I went to welding school and worked with my uncles who have been welding for around 30 years. So I  really got a good education between the two. The welding classes really did improve my welding and my overall understanding of it. The blueprint, metallurgy , and advanced welding classes I took were really worth it. It all depends on the school you choose. College's that offer welding courses are better than Tech schools in my opinion. Like anything else, the more you do it, the better you will get.