School me on Going UNION.................

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Alright, I'm located in Huntsville, ALHere is my history:Bachelor's -- History Major, Minor English, Minor Secondary Education Welding:AWSD1.1 SMAWASME Section IX SMAWASME Section IX GTAW - in AugustJust got off the phone from a gentleman who represents TVA and he is interested in my skills. And there was talk of a future involving inspection, and QC.  Main issue thus far is that all Craft work done out there is UNION. So, he recommended getting into the pipefitters, boilermakers union. And calling back ASAP.I've applied through the website here:http://www.ua.org/I'll be awaiting some contact...........................................  .....................I'm not opposed to Unions but, I know next to nothing about them. What's the typical process of Joining?What's it cost?Does joining here mean I cannot do work for myself? Are you guaranteed work? Does joining in Huntsville, AL mean that I cannot travel out of state to work?Give me the low down if you could.Much thanks,JSMLast edited by jsm11; 07-21-2010 at 01:31 PM.1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:If I were you, I would try contacting a local in a state with better wages. Alabama is a very low wage state because they screwed it up by making it a 'right to work' state. AL is about 25 bucks an hour and in Washington you will see double that. Do you have a military background? You seem to have good qualifications. There are pros and cons about union membership but I would say that the pros far outweigh the cons. Everyone will get vocal on this soon. Just do your homework and figure out what will work best for you.UA Local 598
Reply:Just do your homework and figure out what will work best for you.
Reply:I've worked Union jobs and non-Union jobs over the years (though in a different line of work).  Some unions are really good, and some really bad.  Went through a de-certification process with Teamsters.  Talk about a real PITA.  Make sure you do your homework.  Keep in mind that Unions have become an industry unto themselves.  In other words, their in it to make money for the union, not necessarily the people they represent.
Reply:I can only tell you how it works here in Chicago. First thing you do is go to the building trades union hall. Most of them have web sites now and their phone# and address is on their site. Most people try more than one( Ironworkers,Pipe Fitters,BoilerMakers,Sheet metal workers, ect) and tell them you want to sign up for the apprentice test. Its a apptitude test and they only take it once a year. If you score in the top 5% you will get called in for an interview, if that go's well your an apprentice. If there's work then you start working at 60% of journeymens wages and you go to school two nights a week three and a half hrs. a night for four years( electricians go five and I think operators do also). Every year you get a 10% raise until the end of your fourth year and then you take the journeymens test. If you fail then its one more year of school and try the test again. Some locals are easier than others. Dues are about $30.00 a month, Work is not guaranteed, You can do other work as long as your not competing against the union. Lots of guys travel, There called boomers. It cost about $5.00 a week for a permit to work in a different local. Your a little over qualified, you only need a H.S. diploma. If I had your education and welding certs. I would look into teaching at a community college.
Reply:Thanks so far...............NON -Military .... And around here I'd do a backflip for $25 an hour.I'm here because I have no idea where to do the homework. I checked the ua.org website and there is little information to be had. There are plenty of outfits around that are NON-Union but TVA is the most promising career option because they will pay for my Master's and lay a nice foundation for upward movement concerning becoming a Pipefitter,  NDT qualifications, CWI certs, and eventually an entry in QC then QA.Pros:Potentially Get me a job that I can build a career on.--With that said, TVA has the most stringent codes, and procedures in the area and I'm not sure I'm 100% x-ray ready 365 days a year at this point in time. I don't slack and do it right every time but, I'm still a young buck. And don't know it all. Cons:I'd hate to sign my livelihood over and get bounced off and??? Cost -- maybe????Have my hours limited to 40??? I'm looking to work 60+.I have several hints at job offers in Washington, and Texas as well. Would joining a union here in Al effect my ability to work non union jobs here and abroad? Would it effect my ability to work union jobs in other states?Last edited by jsm11; 07-21-2010 at 11:38 PM.1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:Originally Posted by ironwerker Your a little over qualified, you only need a H.S. diploma. If I had your education and welding certs. I would look into teaching at a community college.
Reply:Originally Posted by ironwerkerI can only tell you how it works here in Chicago. First thing you do is go to the building trades union hall. Most of them have web sites now and their phone# and address is on their site. Most people try more than one( Ironworkers,Pipe Fitters,BoilerMakers,Sheet metal workers, ect) and tell them you want to sign up for the apprentice test. Its a apptitude test and they only take it once a year. If you score in the top 5% you will get called in for an interview, if that go's well your an apprentice. If there's work then you start working at 60% of journeymens wages and you go to school two nights a week three and a half hrs. a night for four years( electricians go five and I think operators do also). Every year you get a 10% raise until the end of your fourth year and then you take the journeymens test. If you fail then its one more year of school and try the test again. Some locals are easier than others. Dues are about $30.00 a month, Work is not guaranteed, You can do other work as long as your not competing against the union. Lots of guys travel, There called boomers. It cost about $5.00 a week for a permit to work in a different local. Your a little over qualified, you only need a H.S. diploma. If I had your education and welding certs. I would look into teaching at a community college.
Reply:Ironwerkers post is a general idea, its not like that everywhere. UA apprentices that have welding certs make full scale in most places. Here it is 44 an hour, 65 with fringes added. With a degree and a union apprenticeship, you can be into several hundred thousand dollars a year. Think piping superintendent. Waiving the apprentice period and testing straight in is generally called "buying your book" and will be looked down upon by many tradesman and could work against you. I would consider thinking about the job offers in Washington. There is a company here that sends their guys to Alabama for projects and pays them Washington scale while the AL guys make their usual scale.UA Local 598
Reply:You can look in to becoming a union contractor.Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by jsm11Alright, I'm located in Huntsville, ALHere is my history:Bachelor's -- History Major, Minor English, Minor Secondary Education Welding:AWSD1.1 SMAWASME Section IX SMAWASME Section IX GTAW - in AugustJust got off the phone from a gentleman who represents TVA and he is interested in my skills. And there was talk of a future involving inspection, and QC.  Main issue thus far is that all Craft work done out there is UNION. So, he recommended getting into the pipefitters, boilermakers union. And calling back ASAP.I've applied through the website here:http://www.ua.org/I'll be awaiting some contact...........................................  .....................I'm not opposed to Unions but, I know next to nothing about them. What's the typical process of Joining?What's it cost?Does joining here mean I cannot do work for myself? Are you guaranteed work? Does joining in Huntsville, AL mean that I cannot travel out of state to work?Give me the low down if you could.Much thanks,JSM
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesIf I were you, I would try contacting a local in a state with better wages. Alabama is a very low wage state because they screwed it up by making it a 'right to work' state. AL is about 25 bucks an hour and in Washington you will see double that. Do you have a military background? You seem to have good qualifications. There are pros and cons about union membership but I would say that the pros far outweigh the cons. Everyone will get vocal on this soon. Just do your homework and figure out what will work best for you.
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesIronwerkers post is a general idea, its not like that everywhere. UA apprentices that have welding certs make full scale in most places. Here it is 44 an hour, 65 with fringes added. With a degree and a union apprenticeship, you can be into several hundred thousand dollars a year. Think piping superintendent. Waiving the apprentice period and testing straight in is generally called "buying your book" and will be looked down upon by many tradesman and could work against you. I would consider thinking about the job offers in Washington. There is a company here that sends their guys to Alabama for projects and pays them Washington scale while the AL guys make their usual scale.
Reply:Just my two cents, but what others has said on this subject is pretty much right on.What you do not realize is that when you join the boilermakers union or the pipefitters union that you will be paid union scale.What you do not understand is that they will send you all over the country and not just to the TVA.  When you travel, $25 a hour is not a lot of money when you have to pay for your own food and lodging and expenses.My brother is a welder for Siemens.  He worked many years for other employers before he developed the skills to become such a proficient welder that someone was willing to hire him and pay him what he thought was a liveable wage.Now he does make $25 a hour, but he is on salary.  He makes $25 a hour at work or sitting at home, watching television.  He also gets paid overtime - since most jobs you work a 12 hour day.  There is no union.At the same time, a person that is a steam turbine blade technician, who welds in Nuclear power plants, should make a heck of a lot more then $25 a hour.The problem is - when you get in a power plant, and you are doing the same job as the pipe fitters, who are making close to $50 a hour, but has to pay for everything out of their own pocket.That is all well and good, when it comes time to retire and you have a million dollars paid into your social security and you have a decent pension from the union.  That is as long as Social Security makes it until you are ready to retire and does not run out of money.The problem with Siemens, is that they only give about a 3% raise every year.  By the time you have 30 years into the company and are ready to retire, you could still - on paper, be making the same amount of money as you were the day that you were hired, due to the fact that you cannot control the cost of living and inflation probably matches or goes beyond the 3% that you are given.At the same time, Siemens is not in the business to just give away money.They do not comment on all the good things that you did in the past year, they just bring up the things that were not done right.  Those things, along with refusals to work is subtracted from your raise.  So you quite possibly might not get the entire 3%!Now granted, if you worked in a union shop and you made union scale and the employer gave you a .25 cent a hour raise every year, that is not 3%.   So basically 3% to someone that is used to making $8.00 a hour and getting a .25 raise - is a lot of money.But when you are away from home, 10 months out of the year, where do you have to spend it?  Who raises your kids? who cuts your grass and takes care of your vehicles?Who maintains your home?  Who is screwing your wife while you are out busting your butt trying to make a living?   How long will your wife and kids live without you being home - before they look for a better situation?$25 A HOUR - EVEN 12 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK, IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF SLEEPING IN YOUR OWN BED EVERY NIGHT.
Reply:Originally Posted by socoj2It also cost about 1/10th to live in alabama vs washington.
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesNot of the east side of Washington, Soco. We enjoy one of the best cost of living ratios in the country. Ive worked for Bechtel WTP project, unless you hire on as an engineer (non union, low pay) getting work has to go through the hall. Its not a name call thing and its not a seniority thing. They have been taking guys steady (7 pipe fitters/welders last week) and plan on increasing their manpower. In the next few years they will go from 160 pipe hands to 1000, I am told.  And a Journeyman pipefitter working 40 hours makes about 90k here in eastern Washington. The average house in this area is about 150,000 (3bd, 1800 sq ft)
Reply:Spokane scale is about 36 an hour plus fringes. Spokane has a little higher cost but its not obscene. Regarding Boogers post above, I have to say that a journeyman pipefitter goes where he wants to. I have friends that work at home and make bucks, and friends that do nothing but travel and chase money making upwards of 300k a year. The union doesnt send you anywhere. You are your own boss to an extent and can talk to your business agent when you want to travel and he will locate jobs around the country for you to work if you want. Its the beauty of being a pipe welder.UA Local 598
Reply:Originally Posted by WHughesSpokane scale is about 36 an hour plus fringes. Spokane has a little higher cost but its not obscene. Regarding Boogers post above, I have to say that a journeyman pipefitter goes where he wants to. I have friends that work at home and make bucks, and friends that do nothing but travel and chase money making upwards of 300k a year. The union doesnt send you anywhere. You are your own boss to an extent and can talk to your business agent when you want to travel and he will locate jobs around the country for you to work if you want. Its the beauty of being a pipe welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsm11Holy schmoly --
Reply:Got back some information:They are accepting applications for the hall.For the meantime, I'm going to bite the bullet and.....am hoping to get into the Pipefitters union.Going to check it out tomorrow possibly...Wish me luck.1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:Good luck. Should be pretty easy to get interview and stuff. Most likely, you will have to take a piss test, and a compass or some other college placement type test and score in a certain range. Then when thats good, they will send you a certified letter with your interview date. After that, you will receive a letter in the mail with your position on the list for entry. Good luck.UA Local 598