Which first? - O/A torch or 110v MIG

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I would like to learn to weld. I don't have any one project in mind, just general repairs and building stuff around the shop. My girlfriend works on a farm and I'm often doing projects for her of various shapes and sizes. (horse farm, no 220 there either) I have access to both torch and Millermatic 210 if I need them, but it'd be asking a favor and I don't feel comfortable using them to learn. The project supervisor of the home, my girlfriend, has limited me to one welding process/year. We are renting and only have 110. ------------------------------ Should I buy an O/A torch or a 110v MIG welder? ------------------------------ Welding with a torch is slow and will take longer to learn, but applicable in a wider range of situations. I'll also be able to cut steel. O/A welding appeals to me as I'll be better prepared for TIG in the future. .I can always wait and buy a 220v MIG later. Welding with MIG is easier to learn but a 110v MIG is limited, and I can't cut. But everybody's got one. I can always save for a plasma cutter in the future I'll be putting in plenty of practice time on whatever I buy. Cost differential isn't a concern. The difference in speed isn't an issue as I'm never in a hurry. What should I do? Thank you in advance for any ideas you might have, I'm open to anything. Tol
Reply:1, find a place to take lessons2, Buy an O/A torch3, learn to use the torch4, move on to stick and NOT 120 volt5, Get 220 volt power6, buy 220 volt MIGOK, all you 135 machine guys can jump in nowAppreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Tol,You do have 220 available where you are, you just need to harness it. Take adavantage of the 210 mig. Have an electrician wire you an outlet for it if you are not familiar or confident enough to wire it yourself. At the same time follow Franz's 1-6
Reply:Great ideas guys!No welding classes within a reasonable distance will work with my schedule.  In the absence of lessons, will I be lost trying to learn to weld with O/A?  I know folks who MIG weld, but all they do is cut with O/A, so they won't be much help.I'd happily wire in 220 if we weren't renting.  As soon as we buy, I'll have 220 immediately.What is the advantage to learning to stick weld before MIG?Thank you, this is really helpful
Reply:It will make you a better mig weldor. Harder process to learn, thus increase your skill level as you master it.
Reply:Stick is a lot harder process to master than MIG, we say we can teach a monkey to MIG in 15 minutes.  I can teach you everything you need to know to stick weld in 10 minutes; but it will take you 10 years to be a stick welder.  The skills you learn with stick will transferr to MIG, but only 10% of what you learn on MIG will transferr to stick.I sort of favor teachin people in the same progression I learned, witch is also pretty much the same progression welding came along in.There is WAY too much selling of the concept anybody can weld going around since all the box stores started selling these Mini Mig machines, and way too much ignoring of how dangerous improperly made MIG welds are.MIG is inherently deceptive in that a weld can look good and not really be stuck to anything.  Stick doesn't exhibit the same problem.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:OK, I'll throw in my two-cents.....Listen to Franz !Oxy-Acetylene FIRST !  Learn to watch that puddle !...Then Stick.....While I'm at it....let me tell you a little story:Regarding stick welding.....I practiced & practiced & practicedwhen I got my equiptment....mostly with 6011 rod, because Iread in a book (Welder's Handbook, by Richard Finch) that"6011 is the easiest rod to use for all-purpose arc-welding".I practiced flat, vertical, horizontal, overhead, right-side up,wrong-side down....every kind-a-which-a-way !....and got goodat it !   I was told that 6011 is an a.c. rod, so, naturally I setthe box for a.c. (90 amps), and practiced with 1/8" rod.This was all before I had the good fortune of finding the"brand X" welding site, and now, this site.Franz posted a response to another new weldor whereinhe admonished the lad to "Learn how to weld on a.c. inany position, and you can weld anything"  (hope i got thatquote fairly accurate, Franz).  Anyway,  when it dawned on me that I was, indeed practicing with a.c. "in all positions"....and doing good....Well, that really made my spirits soar ! ! I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:Do O/A first.   With patience you can do anything with O/A.  Then go with a stick.  Same thing, no limitations.   Then sooner or later you will want to play with mig, tig etc.  But, one process/year?I dunno if that's fair.......I've been at it for 40+ years, and I still dont know nothin'.........
Reply:Bout time you wandered in Pete.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:IMO I would buy a super sawzall and a mig.  I still don't own an Oa and probably won't.  Gas welding?  Who the heck does that?  My guess is you don't want to spend a year practicing, you want to make stuff.  220 is nice but if you don't have it, you don't have it.  Would recomend a class or tutor to help you get started.  Heck our Quarter midger frame was welded with a Clarke 110 V.  Of course it was welded by a union welding instructor.  Big gun is nice but you still have to aim it!
Reply:Originally posted by 1grnlwn IMO I would buy a super sawzall and a mig.  I still don't own an Oa and probably won't.  Gas welding?  Who the heck does that?  My guess is you don't want to spend a year practicing, you want to make stuff.  220 is nice but if you don't have it, you don't have it.  Would recomend a class or tutor to help you get started.  Heck our Quarter midger frame was welded with a Clarke 110 V.  Of course it was welded by a union welding instructor.  Big gun is nice but you still have to aim it!
Reply:Thanks, Franz ! . . .You beat me to the reply.....and you said itbeautifully !   Anyone who fancy's himself a weldor, cannotignore O/A,  anymore than someone who embalmsdead bodies for a living can ignore blood !I'll be the LAST one to let you down !
Reply:I'm sorry I should have mentioned I did some gas welding and brazing when I was in high school. Dad and I built this racing paddle boat via A/O. (circa 1979)  Raced it two years and didn't drown.  Sorry if I threatened your status but I believe there are people on this site that don't want to be career Welders or even (fancy) themselves as welders.  They just want to make things.  They may not have the space or money to get everything at once and they may not want to mess with explosive/flammable gas bottles.  My point is I have created a lot of things that I am proud of and have never owned A/O.  My other point is there are a lot of lurkers out there who might appreciate a different opinion.  I don't use lurker as a derogative term.  It's just people afraid to speak there mind or appear ignorant.  I am afraid of neither. (cheap shot opportunity if you need it).  Franz your answers are learned and frank.  And I respect that.  But there is always more than one way to do things.  And when we post we think people should follow the way we did it, since we are taking our valuable time to tell them.  I do however fail to see the importance of your minions countless posts telling you you are right.  Obviously you know you are right!  After about 4 of these posts in a row , who in there right mind would post an opposing or alternate view.  Well there would be me.  And maybe ..... no he wouldn't.  Well you get my point.  Sorry pic. is not too good .  We only had a 110 v camera back then. Attached Images
Reply:Originally posted by 1grnlwn   After about 4 of these posts in a row , who in there right mind would post an opposing or alternate view.  Well there would be me.  And maybe ..... no he wouldn't.  Well you get my point.  Sorry pic. is not too good .  We only had a 110 v camera back then.
Reply:1grnlwn;I don't know if I'm one of Franz's minions or not. I'm not quite sure what a minoin is But I sure respect knowlege gained by beaucoup years of hard knocks. Most of the time I agree with him, but some times I think he's full of it.Saying that. I believe that if you going to venture into a hobby  such as welding, you should do it right. I've seen people with the mini-migs from Lowes, HD and others go off on there own and stick things together like chewing gum, that fall apart under stress. Then don't know why their part failed. I would much rather someone start out with an O/A outfit, learn what their doing. Then move up to another process. By your own statement you said that you learned on O/A in High School and with your dad. I'm sure that that helped you with better understanding how to use your mig outfit. I also believe that if your short on money for a hobby, your better served with a "Buzzbox" stick welder. I got by for years with a Sears 235 Amp buzzbox using a dryer outlet. That gave me good service. The next thing I got was an A/O outfit. Acetylene is less dangerous to have around then cans of gas. I have an A/O outfit in the Magic Garage, But gas for the Ranger, and lawn equipment etc. is in a flammable storage box out in the back yard.A/O is also good for much more then welding. Since I got my Plasma cutter, I use the Torch mostly for heating to remove bearings, gears, and to bend stuff. I plan to use it to braze bandsaw blades when my blade stock comes in.I hope nobody  would get discouraged from posting a Question. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I know over the years I've asked my share.Well thats my rant for a Sunday afternoon
Reply:Originally posted by fla jim A/O is also good for much more then welding. Since I got my Plasma cutter, I use the Torch mostly for heating to remove bearings, gears, and to bend stuff. I plan to use it to braze bandsaw blades when my blade stock comes in.
Reply:My Dad was a carpenter. I had a neighbor who was a tool and die maker, and a tinkerer at home. He had a Lincoln tombstone, and a O/A torchand a bunch of machine tools. He had me learn to control a puddle with the torch. Then burn rod with the Lincoln. He's long since passed away, but I owe him a great debt for getting a 15 year old started.
Reply:Agree with just about everything posted.  Oxy-fuel is actually very versatile.  You can even do oddball stuff like stainless and aluminum if you use the right flux and know how to use it.  It works in the field with no electricity and doesn't care so much about the wind and shielding gas.  There are also some good videos around and certainly lots of books if classes are a no-go.  A good torch rig will allow you to weld a huge variety of metal thicknesses and will probably come with a cutting torch as well.  Just remember you have to buy the cylinders of fuel and oxygen, and they ain't cheap.  I had never MIG'ed before and went straight for the PM300 push/pull because I didn't want to outgrow the machine.  I think you would be doing yourself a disservice by buying a 110V unit and realizing in your first or second job that it didn't have the juice you need.  Especially around the farm, because you'll be welding some thick stuff.  There's very little you couldn't do with OFW and that could at least hold you until you were in a stable enough situation to buy a bigger machine.  The bigger machines may also have stick capability too, and then you'd be covered.  OFW is lots of fun too, sort of a dying art, and you'll be miles ahead learning it.  It contributes to just about every other process.
Reply:Good post, lynxpilot !   Here's my opinion (according to thetoys I have, which are a Hofart Handler 135,a Thunderbolt XL ac/dc, and Victor o/a outfit):o/a is an absolute must !...not only will you learn the very basicsof welding, it (as was pointed out in an earlier reply) isvery versatile.  Stick, in my "humble opinion" is THEE weldingmethod !   It's been with us for a long time, and, I suppose ifyou walk up to the average guy on the street, this is what hewould think of if you mentioned "arc welding"......I, personally,love to stick weld.   Now M.I.G.....my little "handler" may look like a toy to some of the "Older Farts" on this site, but it, too, hasa very useful place in the shop.The way I look at it, you look at the job first....think of what youwant to do, and then choose from the welding optionsyou have available ! . . . . (and if that doesn't work.....use J.B. Weld) I'll be the LAST one to let you down !