Need some more advice

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Sorry for all the posts, but like I said in my very first post, I'm not very knowledgeable or experienced with welding.I am working on reparing a pipe fence made out of oil field pipe.  I have some pipe that will slide over the original fence and kind of make a sleeve to join two sections together.  This works well for the most part.The problem I have run into is the the wall thickness of the outer sleeve gets real thin in one area.  This creates a fairly big gap (almost 1/4 inch) between sleeve and the inner pipe and when I try to fill it, I keep burning through the thin wall of the sleeve.What technique should I be doing to fill that gap without burning through the thin outer wall but yet still penetrate into the inner pipe? Below is a picture of the pipes that I am welding.  It doesn't show the thin wall on the outer sleeve, it is on the other side that is not visible in this pic.  This pic was used in another post to show a different problem that has since been resolved.Thanks again!  Everyone has been extremely friendly and helpful. Attached Images
Reply:Can you possibly start by welding a bead on the inner pipe where you want the outer to meet, then mate the outer to the bead to fuse it to your "built-up" inner?"SOUTHPAW" A wise person learns from another persons mistakes;A smart person learns from their own mistakes;But, a stupid person.............never learns.
Reply:Would I need to use a different rod and/or setting to keep from melting the thin wall?  I kinda tried to build up yesterday but still ate away at the sleeve, so I stopped before I did too much damage.
Reply:What type of rod are you using? The welds look like 7018.                                          MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:That pic is not current, but I'm using 6013 rods at 105.
Reply:whip it in there fast.   im building my fence right now too and on some of my saddles where im putting my top rail i have some gaps so i just whip it real fast back and forth to create a bead and build on that like papabear says.  its not super fast but once you arc up let the puddle build for a second or two then move out of it then back in to build your bead.  im still working on my fence and i use this technique when im welding on shutdown jobs doing position welds at 3am no thanx to the fitters.  works well though69 sa 200
Reply:Thanks guys.  It'll be raining here for the next couple days, so I'll give it a shot this weekend and hope I don't ruin the sleeve while I'm trying to get the hang of it.
Reply:Couple ideas here. One is to make sure that thin area on the tube you mentioned, It sounds like  a wear spot, make sure thats at the top so gravity helps you out as you fill it up. One more thing you can try if its just to much gap is Knock the flux off a rod or two and wrap them around smaller pipe to help fill in the gap, it gives you more metal to spread the heat around. these are some ways that have worked for me when I get in these situations.Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Reply:Good ideas.  Thanks.
Reply:I didnt think that was a weld at first, but a really bad cutting and fit up job. I'll have to go check out your other thread.  How thick are these pipes, what size are they? try switching to a smaller rod, and try to burn a pass on the inside pipe, just to fill it up a bit, if u can or cant bridge the gap and make sure you get that outer pipe hot, once uve got it drop that stinger and grab your BFH and smoke it hard on and either side of that tack. it should close it right up. Good fit up = Good weld.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Assuming that you are using a 1/8" 6013 rod, 105 amps is awfully hot for that rod. Try turning that puppy down to around 75-85 amps.StephenMillermatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200Miller 30A SpoolgunHypertherm Powermax 30Etc., etc., etc.............Cancer Sucks!
Reply:The outer pipe end will heat up a lot faster than the inner pipe will because it has the end exposed.  You need to keep the arc on the inner pipe longer than on the outer sleeve end.You will have  to either build up successive passes on the inner pipe until there is a minimal gap to span to finish weld the joint or weave the joint if the gap is large.I wouldn't recommend weaving for high quality/ xray pipe welds but for farm fence it would be fine.  If weaving you need to pause for a moment at each end of the weave.  Because the sleeve end heats up so much quicker, pause momentarily here followed by a much longer pause when you reach the inner pipe, repeat until done."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Years ago, before I knew a thing about it, a guy was saying, "If you can walk across it, you can weld across it." I didn't understand it then, but now I figure he was just braggin'. Sometimes I build up weld metal on the side that can take the heat, until the gap can be bridged. This particular job is not about the appearance, so....if it is a bit ugly, who cares?  The practice is more important to you now anyways! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:You are getting some good advice here, 105 is too hot for 1/8 6013. I run it at 90 amps or less if its thin. keep your arc on the heavy ga. pipe and angle your rod towards the thin ga. and let the puddle flow to the thin pipe without touching the rod to the thin. Be sure to shim and tack first to keep the gap even all the way around. It would probably be easier if you had a sleeve on the inside instead.
Reply:Lots of good ideas and advice.  I'm excited to get out and try again, as soon as it stops raining.  Maybe tomorrow.  I'll turn the amps down and see if I can create some build up.  And yeah, pretty ain't my biggest worry. I have lots to learn.  Not that I ever expect to get to any of your levels, but with a small ranch, a couple of tractors, trailers, trucks, etc., I'll have plenty to weld to keep things working properly.Thanks again.
Reply:This is a good time to try some 6010 1/8" running it down hill.  Take your time running it, it may take 3 or more quick passes to bridge the gap and then fill.
Reply:The solution is - you need a migThe other solution would be to put shims between the inner and outer pipe to take up the void left between the two pipes and then weld with a 7018 welder on about 105 Amps and not try to hot rod the welds.   You got to remember that with a stick weld, the first 1/4 inch doesn't hold anything.I'm surprised that your 6013 rod doesn't burn up before you get half way down the rod.   You are running it way too hot and it looks like something isn't cleaned up good enough because I see all those boogers sitting on the pipes.
Reply:Is the gap 1/4" total, if so center it with 1/8 inch spacer.  Also try a different rod.  6010 or 6011.  What machine are you using, that might determine which rod you choose.
Reply:Cut up some coat hangers, wrap, twist & weld. The ends will fall off.Full sun and good breeze 5 hours northeast of you!Matt
Reply:Has anyone ever heard of a hammer? Weld around to the thin section, then hammer it down against the inner pipe, concentrate most of your weld on the inner pipe and let the weld metal wash over onto the thin section. If it's oilfield tubing the thin spots are caused by sucker rod box wear or corrosion or a combination of the two, not that it makes any difference. A thin spot is still a thin spot.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerHas anyone ever heard of a hammer?
Reply:Originally Posted by Booger WelderThe solution is - you need a mig   You got to remember that with a stick weld, the first 1/4 inch doesn't hold anything.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Yup.  Doug247 did up in post #20.
Reply:Well I was able to go out this afternoon and get the gap closed.  I couldn't figure out why everyone was saying my amp setting was too high and then I realized I was making a huge mistake.I kept turning the setting higher and higher to get penetration, but like an idiot, I was still just letting the engine idle!  Once I used the throttle control, it worked at the suggested settings and I was able to create the build up and bridge the gap.  I feel pretty stupid!   Last edited by OldFatGuy; 09-12-2010 at 08:19 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldFatGuyWell I was able to go out this afternoon and get the gap closed.  I couldn't figure out why everyone was saying my amp setting was too high and then I realized I was making a huge mistake.I kept turning the setting higher and higher to get penetration, but like an idiot, I was still just letting the engine idle!  Once I used the throttle control, it worked at the suggested settings and I was able to create the build up and bridge the gap.  I feel pretty stupid!If you have a gas engine driven welder doesn't it have an automatic idle/governor on it?The engine should idle until you strike the arc then it should speed up while you weld until a few seconds after you break the arc when it should return to idle."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:It is a Miller Roughneck 2e that I just bought off of Craigslist.  It does not speed up automatically - it has a throttle control knob that you pull out.  As far as I can tell from the manual, that is what you have to do.  The only thing I know for sure is that I have to manually pull out the knob.  Can anyone tell me if something is broken and it should do this automatically?Here is a link to a post about the welder:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=44614
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Yup.  Doug247 did up in post #20.