How can I keep this thing from killing me?!?!

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OK, last year I got stuck in the snow even when it just barely snowed.  I had just bought this truck and the rear tires were bald (it's a duallie).  So I got 4 new tires for the rear, but it is so light, I figured I needed to add some weight.So..... there is a place near me that installs concrete septic systems and they have a bunch of broken concrete slabs laying around and they said I could have some.So I got this -- how the heck do I keep it from coming through my cab and making me into a pancake if I'm in an accident??  Any ideas??It weighs between 300-350 lbs. Attached Images
Reply:To be honest, I'd drive like I got 300-350lbs of loose whupazz in the back.I spect you already know that, but that's what I'd do... We get snow, so I drive different, well maybe not, I go slow all the time these days!!!Matt
Reply:Id take some 2x4s and make a simple frame like thing, with 4x4s or 4x6s running the longwise in the bed from the front of it, to the slab. But, since this is a welding forum... You might wanna try that with some old angle iron :-)
Reply:Pin it to your hitch rails, that is as sturdy an anchor point as you are going to get!!!Get some pins and some chain and/or binders...City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:My F350 wouldn't even notice 350lbs in the back as far as traction is concerned. I run almost 3K of balast for plowing. Even in light snow I'll notice it if my 125 gal diesel tank is empty and I haven't loaded the balast yet. With the tank full (aprox 1000 lbs) the truck is manageable without the plow on.Here's how we secure balast in the trucks. A rubber bed mat will go a long way to helping keep this in place. With out mine, anything loose in the bed was all over the place. Usually there are tie downpoints at the fron corners of the bed, and sometimes at the back. A few straps will secure the load to the front wall or the tailgate. If you keep it from starting to move, it will usually stay put. We use several  2" ratchet straps to secure the large concrete block ( 2'x2'x4'  aprox 1/2 yrd @ 3K) in the one truck. One other truck has a layer of 8" block over the whole bed. (3k) With the block stacked right theres no room for them to shift. A couple of sheets of plywood on top makes the bed useful still..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Remove concrete chunk.  That has smashed box written all over it.Purchase cheap bags of sand.  I think they come in 100lb tubes.  Get 4 of them, one in front and one behind each rear hub.It is either that or fab a cage that you can use the bed bolts for.TB 302 EFIESAB Migmaster 275MM 211 w/Spoolmate 100Hypertherm PlasmaMetal Master, Victor, and Smith TorchesUnihydro 45Wells BandsawArcair K2000Weldcraft Tig rigMiller 12VSLincoln PT 225No one can say I'm brand biased.
Reply:I'd agree get rid of the concrete and look at one of these items from this company http://www.shurtrax.com/ It's a thick vinyl bag you fill with water that will freeze and provide upto 400lbs of weight in your box. There are loops that you use to tie the bag down to the tie down points in your box. I bought and used one last winter and it was great. it lies flat enough you can pile stuff on top with in reason.Harold MulderMiller 211 AutosetHTP 201 Invertig with water coolerHardinge Cataract Quick Change Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverPin it to your hitch rails, that is as sturdy an anchor point as you are going to get!!!Get some pins and some chain and/or binders...
Reply:I can't tell to good from the pics,but some bed liners have molded in slots for 2x4 or 2x6 boards to set accross the width of the bed to keep stuff from sliding around.
Reply:Move south and leave the concrete in IL or buy an SA200 and stick it in there.I know - that's a lot of help.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Find a place that has old shipping pallets and jam a bunch of those in front of it to keep it from sliding.  Strapping it down probably wouldn't hurt either.
Reply:seriously..... head down to the sand plant or even home depot and grab some bags of sand...... if youre worried about safety, then stop trying to argue with the bull and leave the danged concrete where you found it.... it aint that hard to figure out!nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metalwww.sicfabrications.com
Reply:Just fill the bed full of welding equipment, That should give you all the weight you need.John
Reply:Shovel the bed full off snow and hope for cold winter days.If you want to use the 5th rails, you can probably build some sort of metal frame that latches to the rails, then to the edge of the bed.  You'll need to remove the tailgate though.I like the sand bags idea.  Plus if you get stuck you can cannibalize one of the bags to sprinkle under your tires of you do get in a bind.I echo the rubber bedmat suggestion.  I've got one in my truck and it help keeps stuff settled with the cushion.  BUT the entire mat can slide with a heavy load on it and a hard stop.  Gotta be aware of that.  The 4wheeler would shift my bedmat a lot.BTW what tires are you running?Last edited by Monica; 09-25-2010 at 12:46 PM.Lincoln AC225 and CartLincoln WeldPak HD and CartOne hand
Reply:sand also can be useful to spread for traction if you get stuck. Saved me a couple times.thermal arc mst400, va4000 feeder, lincoln 175 min, victor torches, miller s32p feeder, air arc k4000 for work.
Reply:Well I like the strap down option, like I said above.  The drawback to putting in sand, firewood, etc. is that I don't want to leave it in there all the time.  That's why I went with the slab with a place to connect a chain to - I can unload it in a matter of a couple minutes once the roads are clear and then load it again on the next snow.  We're not like Minnesota or someplace up north, we only get the occasional snow.
Reply:I know you like the concrete slab...But that being said, sand bags are still easier.  Put a 4x4 behind the wheel wells and then throw sacks of sand between that and the 4x4.  You mentioned cost...  At least around here a 90lb sack of sand is 3.99.  I doubt your truck will even feel the 300 lbs.  Get 5+ sacks of sand and a 4x4 from home depot (think you can get a 8' long stud for $5) cut it to size.  You can load and unload the sand faster and easier than the concrete, without using a tractor and you are still out the door for $25 and would have an extra 200lbs of weight.If you really must go with the concrete just make a frame around to and have legs that grab between the tailgate and the wheel wells.
Reply:Michelin LTX M/S tires worked the best for my 2000 F-350 2wd DRW.     Second best thing was a 50 gallon transfer flow fuel tank in the bed.    50 gallons times 8lbs per gallon was a nice 400 lbs of ballast.     the tool box on top has around another 150lbs of tools and what not in it.with the tires and the tools you almost get to good at making over steer U turns in the rain.  with the right amount of throttle and a flick of the wheel you can piss off a drift car driver with the precision handling.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:I have used sections of truck inner tube filled with sand and ends closed with heavy wire twists.  The sand is handy if I really get stuck and the inner tubes conform to the floor of the box.
Reply:op wants to argue the bull.... if you didnt want anyone critiquing your idea of the slab, then dont post it open for discussion on an open forum....here in arkansas, i buy 50 lb bags of floor dry from sam's... 5 bucks per and it seems to grab better once spread on the ice.... cause i dont care who ya are, what tires you have and what truck you have and even how much weight you a carrying, you GONNA get stuck. it's simple physics... now fast forward a little and say you drivin around with a slab in the truck, you start to climb a hill, and almost to the top and some knuckleheaded soccer mom on her cell phone is coming down the hill sideways, you swerve out and miss the impact, but in the process, you just went in the ditch... that slab AINT gonna help you outta that ditch, yeah? where as a few bags of aggregate spread out under your tires will.....just sayin (cause i been there and the "soccer mom" was my ex-wife's best friend)or buy a set of tire chains, quick on, quick off.... you gonna grab better with a set of those than anything.... i wont oblige you anymore for your being knuckleheaded as wellnothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metalwww.sicfabrications.com
Reply:Originally Posted by welder_oneop wants to argue the bull.... if you didnt want anyone critiquing your idea of the slab, then dont post it open for discussion on an open forum.......or buy a set of tire chains, quick on, quick off.... you gonna grab better with a set of those than anything.... i wont oblige you anymore for your being knuckleheaded as well
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieMichelin LTX M/S tires worked the best for my 2000 F-350 2wd DRW.     Second best thing was a 50 gallon transfer flow fuel tank in the bed.    50 gallons times 8lbs per gallon was a nice 400 lbs of ballast.
Reply:Originally Posted by MonicaBTW what tires are you running?
Reply:A cheap and easy way to secure that slab is to find the top rail of the frame, and drill straight through the bed, and down through the frame rail. Install a welded 1/2" eye bolt through the top, with a pair of jam nuts from above and below to lock it in place. Strap to the eye bolts, and that slab will stay put even if you tip over. If you need the whole bed, remove the eye bolts, and replace them every winter.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:That is perfect, Rojodiablo.  I liked connecting to the pins on the hitch rails, but was still struggling with what to do back by the tailgate.  Simple, elegant, and efficient.  I should be set with my new tires, 50 gallon transfer tank, the slab strapped down, and the tire chains in the cab in case they are ever needed.  You guys rock!Question, are you gas or diesel? Transfer tanks are great for diesel, but not the best idea for gasoline. You might also find a 50 gal tank a bit odd sized. You can get tall thin wide 50 gal tanks, but they need to be well secured or the tip over. The standard 50 gal is 2'x2'x2' and is a bit funky in the back. The 100 gal ones are 2'x2'x4' and still fit a standard bed a bit odd. The L shaped 100's fit better since they are usually 60" wide. The down side is you loose a lot of bed space, but they stay put better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloA cheap and easy way to secure that slab is to find the top rail of the frame, and drill straight through the bed, and down through the frame rail. Install a welded 1/2" eye bolt through the top,
Reply:Just get that concrete out of there and put tube sand in the bed, you can remove it by hand, it won't slam into the headboard and break anything either.  I would actually get rid of that bed liner and replace it with a rubber mat, then nothing will shift.
Reply:Lotechman wins the prize AFAIAC.  Snowplowing up here is serious business and two truck inner tubes cut and filled with sand, one placed around each wheel well sure makes a 4x4 p/u push snow like a dozer.  Inner tubes won't cut through your cab like a guillotine in an accident, stay put, don't need tying down and if you are stuck on ice you have a ready supply of sand to get you or the driver you are helping going."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Given all the responses that propose tossing loose ballast weight in the back of the truck, and the use of a "magic" rubber floor mat, I would ask you all to consider the following:In the case of an accident, where the vehicle hauling this loose ballast comes to a sudden and immediate stop, all of these items now become loose projectiles that will rip through Steel and Flesh...At the point of impact, you will exceed the WLL (Working Load Limit) of any Ratchet Strap, or System 7 Transport Chain... You will exceed the Ultimate Breaking Strength of the restraints, the restraints will fail, the ballast will come loose, and probably do MORE damage than the initial accident.Tying anything more that a dirt bike or a quad to the cheesy tin tie downs in the corner of a truck box is absurd... They will fail, and tear out of the box side on impact.Tying anything to the bed rails is about at foolish - They are attached to the Box Sides which are glorified Tin, and they will fail as well.Unless you wish to invest in HIGH DOLLAR Swivel Eye hooks, and are very, VERY Careful on how you Install and Use them, you will apply loads to them that they were not designed for, and they will fail.  Using Rojo's example, you will apply a sideload to the eyebolts, and they will SNAP OFF.  In the case that they DO hold, the chains will snap next.About the only Safe, and Responsible way to add ballast weight in the quantities discussed is to make the final attachement points directly to the frame of the hauling vehicle....  Either make a framework filled with concrete that pins into your existing 5th wheel rails, or remove the rails, and make a framework fillled with concrete that bolts to the brackets in their place.Anything else may not kill YOU, but chances are, once airborne, it WILL kill someone ELSE.Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteLotechman wins the prize AFAIAC.  Snowplowing up here is serious business and two truck inner tubes cut and filled with sand, one placed around each wheel well sure makes a 4x4 p/u push snow like a dozer.  Inner tubes won't cut through your cab like a guillotine in an accident, stay put, don't need tying down and if you are stuck on ice you have a ready supply of sand to get you or the driver you are helping going.
Reply:Wow, I didn't know this would spark such intense posts.So the concrete is out and sounds like the sand bags / tubes are out too.  What about the fuel transfer tank - do those come with proper installation instructions and attachment accessories?
Reply:Sincerest Aplogies for sounding "Intense"...After dealing with all the rules and regulations building Heavy Class 8 Trucks for use in the Oilpatch moving Drilling Rigs etc, Seeing loose components flying off loads and killing people (won't get into details) etc etc, I am pretty touchy about the general level of F'n Stupidity that people engage when discussing what is "Safe" with Pick up trucks...About the same goes for carrying tools or TIRE CHAINS behind the seat of a pickup... You'll be beaten to a pulp in a roll over.All of this is avoidable if people were to plan for the "Worst Case Scenario"I would be a pretty Pizz Poor Excuse for a Human Being if I didn't raise my hand, and try to keep you guys from killing yourselves.Later,Jason
Reply:I understand and you really hit home with me when you mentioned the possibility of killing someone else.So back to the fuel transfer tanks... are those typically attached to the frame in a safe manner?
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfFor someone engaged in such a "Serious Business" you are a horribly mis-informed fool... Sounds like you are on your way to a Darwin Award.
Reply:Wow, I didn't know having 350 pounds in the back of my 3/4 ton pickup was a bad idea.  I guess next time I have to go get 8 50 pound bags of dog food, I'll go rent a semi truck and trailer.  Who is John Galt?
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfSo let me make sure I have this correct Paul before I go sideways on you...You just told someone to drill FOUR HOLES down through the TOP FLANGE of a C-Channel Truck Frame, and install Eye Bolts into the TOP FLANGE to secure a load....Ummm.... Does ANYONE Besides ME se the Lunacy of this suggestion?If the OP would get his Butt out of his computer chair, go outside, and LOOK at his truck, he will see that the existing 5th wheel rails are already BOLTED through the Bed Floor to angle iron that is BOLTED to the frame through existing holes ON THE SIDE OF THE FRAME.If you want to use Rojo's idea of the Eye Bolts, then remove 4 bolts out of your 5th wheel rails, and then run the eye bolts through in their place.Not really rocket science, and if you would have it DONE already, if you would take the time to LOOK, at what is already in place in your truck bed until you UNDERSTAND how it WORKS.ANYONE that would drill the upper, or lower flanges of truck frames needs to have thier head examined.
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfGiven all the responses that propose tossing loose ballast weight in the back of the truck, and the use of a "magic" rubber floor mat, I would ask you all to consider the following:In the case of an accident, where the vehicle hauling this loose ballast comes to a sudden and immediate stop, all of these items now become loose projectiles that will rip through Steel and Flesh...At the point of impact, you will exceed the WLL (Working Load Limit) of any Ratchet Strap, or System 7 Transport Chain... You will exceed the Ultimate Breaking Strength of the restraints, the restraints will fail, the ballast will come loose, and probably do MORE damage than the initial accident.Tying anything more that a dirt bike or a quad to the cheesy tin tie downs in the corner of a truck box is absurd... They will fail, and tear out of the box side on impact.Tying anything to the bed rails is about at foolish - They are attached to the Box Sides which are glorified Tin, and they will fail as well.Unless you wish to invest in HIGH DOLLAR Swivel Eye hooks, and are very, VERY Careful on how you Install and Use them, you will apply loads to them that they were not designed for, and they will fail.  Using Rojo's example, you will apply a sideload to the eyebolts, and they will SNAP OFF.  In the case that they DO hold, the chains will snap next.About the only Safe, and Responsible way to add ballast weight in the quantities discussed is to make the final attachement points directly to the frame of the hauling vehicle....  Either make a framework filled with concrete that pins into your existing 5th wheel rails, or remove the rails, and make a framework fillled with concrete that bolts to the brackets in their place.Anything else may not kill YOU, but chances are, once airborne, it WILL kill someone ELSE.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldFatGuyI understand and you really hit home with me when you mentioned the possibility of killing someone else.So back to the fuel transfer tanks... are those typically attached to the frame in a safe manner?
Reply:Well I've learned that pickups shouldn't be used to haul anything.  Wonder why they made them? A can of beans at 70 miles an hour could rip someones head right off. Can't put it in front, can't put it in back, maybe have it delivered. "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyWonder why they made them?
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThe yuppie dads need something to drive that makes them look like a working man. Just like the soccer moms need a Suburban/Excursion to move their single kid to school instead of a mini van.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloHey; fake breasts take up a lot of space.
Reply:i know that he transfer flow brand tanks have the best mounting of any of the aftermarket tanks i have have seen.   and are one of two brands i have ever seen that actually tie into the factory fuel system in a legal way.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by haroldmulderI'd agree get rid of the concrete and look at one of these items from this company http://www.shurtrax.com/ It's a thick vinyl bag you fill with water that will freeze and provide upto 400lbs of weight in your box. There are loops that you use to tie the bag down to the tie down points in your box. I bought and used one last winter and it was great. it lies flat enough you can pile stuff on top with in reason.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Move south and leave the concrete in IL or buy an SA200 and stick it in there.
Reply:Originally Posted by norite I stand by what I posted and I would feel perfectly safe doing so myself. You refer in a later post to "the worst case scenario".  Are you some enlightened scholar who read the whole book or did you just see the tv show?Please leave the forum to those who offer their comments in the spirit of contributing to the subject at hand and keep your personal comments to yourself.
Reply:Originally Posted by Black Wolf2nd Generation Truck Driver - Oilpatch,Logging, Fluids -  On Highway, Off Highway & Ice RoadsJourneyman Auto Mechanic with IP Red SealJourneyman Welder with IP Red SealFormere member of Local Volunteer Fire Department that used to clean up the messes when guys like you smeared themselves all over the place.etc etc...
Reply:Millermatic 251Spectrum 300 PlasmaEverlast PowerTig 250EXEverlast PowerCool W300Harris / Victor OACraftsman 13 Speed Drill PressProTools Air/Hydraulic Bender48" BrakeCompressor, Notchers, Grinders, etc.
Reply:It's all relevant