welder problem

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Im a union journyman at our school we have 7 welders,5 that are used 1 in the other bldg. All of the welders seem to have a magnetic blow prob. Theyve been cleaned but still do it. We have seperated the cables still do it. The electric co. says no problems on them.We have no idea, Does anyone happen to know whats goin on. Thanks for your time. Odin
Reply:what are you welding on?  used pipe has a tendancy to exibit this problem.XMT 350 MPa, w/D52-DTA 185 TSWHarris of
Reply:Im welding 3/8 plate steel the welders are miller dial arc. The rod starts to burn in real deep before you can pull back theres a big hunk of molten steel metal the slag is real hard to get off. I dont understand why all the welders do this evan in the other bld. theres only 1 welder. We are using 7018 1/8 rod we changed rod we changed steel.Its like mag. blowback were welding onsteel tables ground down low moved ground around. no idea whats going  any help would be appreaciated   odin
Reply:I'm not sure I understand the problem. Where are you located? Probably not relevant.When we went from US steel to imported steel there was problems with magnetism. We learned when the rod started to blow to stop and begin welding in the opposite direction. Instead of left to right, right to left. The foreman explained as a "polarity" problem? Might not be what you are experiencing at all? But, this problem was with the steel, not the machines. Popped BBs everywhere sounding like popcorn.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:we have tried welding ac. we have tacken the ground and wraped it around the pole and mounted to the bottom of the steel that took care of it for awhile now that we did that it is still doing it.the plate steel is for cert testing but sometime it does it and sometimes it dont last time i was in there thursday it was doing it to me and another guyi have been all over the web trying to figure it outall they say is mag bolw back. please reply odin
Reply:I could be way off base. I still think it's the steel & not the machine. You said you wrapped the ground around the pole?? But you're welding plate?? What pole? And if it's magnetism and wrapping one direction doesn't work, wrapping the other direction will. It's all about polarity. Have you tried welding the opposite direction? I suspect that will fix your problem. Magnetic plate or pipe is a bitch to weld until it's polarized correctly.That's what I tried to explain in the first post of mine. We were welding in a chute, probably 20 feet long, left to right. Just past the halfway point the weld started to blow. Foreman said to start at the opposite end and weld back to where it started to blow and that actually worked. 3/8 steel, 7018 1/8 rod.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:By pole, it appears to me he's talking about a small height adjustable table on a pole and they're welding practice and test coupons in booths.  He said this is at a union hall, I believe.In addition to the other suggestions, clamping the test pieces in a different direction/orientation in relation to the table, or turning the table a different direction on the pole could help reduce the problem.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Are you sure the polarity of your leads is correct?
Reply:Polarity is right.  The poles are mounted to the concrete and they have a slider arm and a slider table I believe pipe is 4 inches with pipe going over four inches as the sliders has a 1/4 inch steel table about two feet long.  Welding vertical I bought steel from a different source I bought welding rods from a different source we have wrapped the ground both different ways moved the ground all over seperated welding leads I still don't understand why in the other building the other welder is also doing the same thing and it is not hooked to the same electrical system.  When I first tried to take the cert test it did it on three plates until we wrapped the ground around the pole and hooked to the bottom of the plate and I actually passed the cert test but it still seems to be a big problem.  We don't understand we have had welders that have been in the field for years and they gave us pointers but nothing has cured the problem.  Any suggestions?Thank youOdin
Reply:I see red flags here.A union journyman and your welding at a school?A union journyman and your confused by arc blow?Sounds fishy to me.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Im a carpenter that is trying to get on pile driving or trade careers.I thought this was a forum to find help  to questions not to ridicule people .So far everyone has tried to be helpful Till now. 31years carpenter A woodshop full of tools WHATS YOUR POINT Snoeproe   ODIN
Reply:You say you tried AC and you're getting the same thing maybe it's not arc blow but a different problem?Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:I have found, when welding on old drill stem pipe, that it helps to wrap my stinger cable around the pipe.  I have never heard of wrapping the work line to eliminate magnetic flux.  Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Well thats what we think it is.I dont realy know Ive only ran into this at the school. And thos are pipe stands but they do it on tables as well. We got the wraparound ground cable idea off the web so thats why we think its mag blow but i wonder if theres a little mag in the pipes  Odin
Reply:any chance the poles are welded to some thing under the floor?If weld current is going places we don't expect, machine A could be causing problems for machine B. We could have a welder with a weld terminal shorted to the case putting weld voltage on the electrical system grounds. I would check all the welders for shorts to ground then try welding with short lead on the floor. see if it welds right. then add back in longer leads and the stands one by one and see if anything makes a difference. Also take one of the welders and steel to a different location and try it there.Bring in a loaner or rental welder for some of the same tests.Keeping tack of your tests and results should point you to the problem.
Reply:How long has it been doing this? Was there any electrical event or any change or addition to the wiring?  How are the circuits grounded? Is it particularly dry where you are?  Dry weather can prevent a good ground to earth affecting how the circuits behave.  Have you tried any other welders, particularly an inverter on the same circuit?Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Just an uneducated shot in the dark, but two things. Are you near electrical transmition lines or towers? Maybe you got some weird voo-doo from something like that. Or, #2, if the table poles are mounted in the concrete floor could they, and other table poles or other ground sources also be touching the rebar in the concrete, again, creating voo-doo? Just throwing it out thereMaybe tinfoil hats would help................200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Weve tried the hats didnt work .The poles are mounted to the floor. But not in the other bldg. Were in Warsaw In. but it is dry. They had the same prob 5- 10 yrs. ago but dont remember what the electrician did or y. Im thinking mabey the poles have alittle mag in them. Next time I get there im gonna take metal dust and see if it grabs we tried a screwdriver it dident seem to grab. Can anyone tall me what arc rod flash is could this be it. There seems to be voo-doo goin on. I also wonder if we ground the poles would that help or is it the wrong way. Im not a proffesional I try .Ive been able to get my3g struc. and my 3g d.1.5 bridge. I realy would like to take this carrer further. Ireally appreiciate everyones input And time.  Thankyou all. Maby bigger hats.   Odin
Reply:Go pour water around the ground rod of the building power. The fact this is on again, off again suggests something that COULD be environmental, or seasonal.  I have heard of crazy things like this happening in real dry weather. It might be a voodoo solution to a voodoo problem, but its worth a try.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiYou say you tried AC and you're getting the same thing maybe it's not arc blow but a different problem?