Early Mopar Intake Manifold Fix..

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When is the last time you saw one of these?If you never saw one take a good look..You may never see these again..The casting where the choke stove..some call it the choke spring is real thin and they wear out from the inside out..Somebody already attempted to repair this with little luck..Inside the chamber..Note where the bolthole is..I ground it all out and started over..Bottom side was another hole..Next post.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:First we grind the mess down and have a look see..Weld weld weld..Top rebuilt..Side ground..I know it looks like a crack but it's not..After the Bridgeport portion of our show..Next.....zap!Last edited by zapster; 11-27-2007 at 03:17 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Here it is all done..Torch..Welder settings..1/16 5356 fillerGas mix..2 1/2 hrs later..I get all the fun jobs.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:okay zap... you say these are early Mopar parts. how early are we talking here? i've never seen one of these and have no idea how they would benefit the engine's intake system, or even fit inside the engine bay. i know where the carb goes, but how is it exactly that they are aranged in the engine? what are they off of.oh, by the way, great job as always.Later,Andy
Reply:1959 Hemi in a car like "Christine"..Thats what they were original equipment on.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:2-4bbl 392 Hemi Cross Ram.  They were using them quite a bit in the early 60's on Super Stock class (pre-pro stock) & A/FX (pre-funny cars). Check the oversize hood scoop holes.  Sorry to say, I was around then and remember them well.  They were very exciting to watch.  Dyno Don Nickelson, Bill Jenkins,Dick Landy, etc.http://public.fotki.com/TommyDz/afx_...k_afx_102.htmlOh, and nice repair Zap.  You get all of the fun jobs!Last edited by Rick Moran; 11-27-2007 at 03:43 PM.Hobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:Yaknow Rick..The second I started this I just knew you would know what they were.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWhen is the last time you saw one of these?...zap!
Reply:My guess was a dual quad set-up for say a 427 but the carb and intake ports mounting planes are on the same horizontal surface if that makes sense. Pictures of the engine would be cool. I'm not a Mopar guy but things like this are too cool to miss.MmmmmmmmmmmmBeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrGooooooooooo  oodddd!!!!
Reply:Good work, I was wondering how early you were talking.  My dad has been restoring Mopars since I was a little fella and I had no idea what that thing was.
Reply:Nice!!  30 min to rig and secure in the bridgeport? weld it like you own it
Reply:Originally Posted by lewrayNice!!  30 min to rig and secure in the bridgeport?
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYaknow Rick..The second I started this I just knew you would know what they were.....zap!
Reply:Indeed...he has. edit - nice work Zap.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Just as a few small "points of order" from a mopar nut:The D-500 engine option (2 x 4bbl carb cross-ram intake system) was available in 1960 on 361CUID and 383CUID (330HP / 460lbft) power plants.The long ram setup, which Zap was lucky enough to get his paws on, was available on street-ready passenger cars. The shorter ram version that was brought up was only available through Mopar parts counters. And while they both appear to be the same externally, their runner construction is different internally.The longer runners places the carbs out over the wheel wells where they could gather colder air than that of what was above the engine. Also, the longer runners increased air fuel velocity and cooled the charge. The intake (much like the current tunnel ram intakes) was designed to create monster torque at lower RPMs.What follows is typically what is understood to be the Hemi Cross Ram:The longer, older styled cross ram was never optioned on a hemi, but it was optioned, after 1960, on the 413 and 426 max wedge (not to be confused with the 426 Hemi)This is what it would have looked like in all its glory right off the assembly line. 1960 Chrysler 300F 413 D-500:Another (different 300):And Zap: You're right, you DO get all the fun jobs.
Reply:Nice Nice NICE PICS!!!from a Ford man..Thank You.. The long ram setup, which Zap was lucky enough to get his paws on,
Reply:Thanks Ender for closing up the specifics.  I couldn't find that good of pics!  At one point, I believe the CHP (Cali Hwy Patrol) was running 2-4bbls., but I thought it was on a 440, probably the 426 wedge.  I WAS a little young back in the early 60's with 2 older brothers.Hobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:Just to add to the pictures.413 with cross overs.I snapped that photo at a car show back in 05 we did.Patriot Performance AutoLincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln AC-225 StickVictor Journeyman O/AQuincy QT-5 Compressor
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick MoranThanks Ender for closing up the specifics.  I couldn't find that good of pics!  At one point, I believe the CHP (Cali Hwy Patrol) was running 2-4bbls., but I thought it was on a 440, probably the 426 wedge.  I WAS a little young back in the early 60's with 2 older brothers.
Reply:Nice fix Zap. I had a pair of those cross rams in 1982 and they were mint. Traded them off for something i don't have now. Hey Rick nice '65 Belvedere, had one of them too. That was my favorite car at that time. I sold the car in 1977 and the guy stiffed me 100 bucks so he never got the title. I still have the title and he still has the car. Rick remember Francis Crider speaking of old Mopar drivers. I have coffee with him at night he lives up the street from me. I think Francis designed the dual distributor for the 426 race Hemi ..BobBob WrightSalem, Ohio  Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drillhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawking/1999 Miller MM185 w/ Miller 185 Spoolmate spoolgun
Reply:Man do those pictures bring back memories! It was before my time, but my uncle ordered a new Mopar in late 59, I remember him telling me stories how  he ordered it with the optional cross ram intake, extra carb, and headers, all of which came in the trunk! He had the dealer install everything, instant racecar. Sweet pics! and once again, nice work Zap!
Reply:Nice repair on a nice piece. Thanks for sharing, I was wondering what you were up to lately.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:You just gotta love those Mopars.  The ole 413 Max Wedge put out some nice numbers and is sought after by collectors.  The 383 in my Charger is enough for me at less than 9 miles per gallon however I woudn't mind stuffing a 440 6-pack in her just to feel the difference.Nice job Zap, I know its not a Ford but it was definately a good cause.MichaelMillermatic 25115" Rockwell Drill Press10" Logan Lathe5hp - 2-stage 80 Gallon CompressorHome Made Sand / Soda Blaster
Reply:What I've learned from this thread, and more specifically, the pictures of the car, are that changing valve cover gaskets on a car with those intakes is a royal PITA.
Reply:i think that having to do just about anything to that engine would be a PITA. even changing the oil could require caution so you didn't get any oil on the runner i would think. intersting set-up tho... i can see where it would have it's draw-back tho... long runer like that build up heat and thus warm the air before it enters the engine... good for fuel, not so good for power. don't get me wrong... the technology at the time said that those were the way to go, so i can't bash on them for that... but for the same reasons that imports use aluminum CAI and SRI, it's be better to have the runners to be shorter, thus decreasing surface area to transfer heat to the incoming air supply, or else lower give them better access to the cooler, ambient air supply. did those have ram-air hoods or something? i know NOTHING about older cars.Later,AndyAAMM-  I have never heard of the man.  My background was my 2 older bros, hanging around Lions Drag Strip in LB, CA., OCIR (Orange County Intl.Raceway) and coincidently, in 1980 I went to work for Keith Black running the Head Dept building and repairing aluminum 426 Hemi heads for all of the Top Fuel drag and boat racers.Ironically, I used to watch Don Garlits as a little kid and later worked on his heads.  Small world and it shows just how long he was in the game 25 years later.  Anyone remember how long Shirley Muldowney dominated the class in the 80's?  Tom McEwen, Mickey Thompson, the list goes on and on.I was just in the right place at the right time.  Still have my KB pit parka in the closet.My favorites back then were the AA/Gas altered-40's Willys w/ blown, gas hemis.  Stone, Woods and Cook and Big John Mazmanian. Also the altered wheelbase (pre- funny cars) like Dick Landy.  Rear axle moved forward about 18" for better weight distribution and great wheelies.  Tall-tube fuel injected Hemis.  Check out this site: '64-'66 to see what I'm talking about.http://www.dicklandy.com/Gallery/64-66.htm  Super Stocks (early prostock) of Bills Jenkins, Nicholson, Sox & Martin and others.  Traditional battles between Don Prudomme/Don Garlits, McEwen/Prudomme. Also saw the Gary Gabelich/Valkerie Jet car race Prudome.  KB was the motor man for Prudomme back then where he first developed the Hemi for supercharged application that are used today.  He ended up buying the patent for the Hemi from Chrysler, the molds/patterns were upstairs at the shop under lock and key. Art Arfon's Green Monster jet car against the Valerie.Little Red wagon- Rear engine Hemi Ford Econoline pickup.  Wheelied the whole 1/4 mile.  Hemi 'Cuda under glass, same thing. TV Tommy Ivo.  Peters' Frieght Train, twin chevy dragster.  The first to break 200mph.  There were other multi-engined cars too.Big Daddy Ed Roth customs.  Saw the Dragula coffin thing run the 1/4 mile along wiith other creations.  Customs were the side show like the wheelie cars and jet cars back then.  Seemed like it was more of a "show" every week, rather than the high tech intense challanges of today. But I'm sure that Keith would disagree with me if he were alive today. A couple of other ironies here:My Dad was a commericial artist and designed the Lions Drag Strip sign/logo.  I have have the original artwork in my attic.  We used to get in free.Pappy Hart was the founder of Lions and Santa Ana strips (see link for some good history pertanent to all drag strips) and for 10 years I worked at Santa Ana airport with the runway where they raced about 100 yards from my office.http://www.wediditforlove.com/cj-history.htmlI'd better stop now....Thanks for the memories! Attached ImagesHobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:Hah! - Zap, I just knew this thread was going to show you gluing the ear back on a slant-6 manifold!  Nice fix. In a case like this, I wonder if there would be a way to replicate the casting grain?  Notice the balance tubes? This is a for a wedge engine. Did someone build a cross-ram "bologna" manifold for the early hemi too? Andy -  Chicago native, and your namesake, Andy Granatelli, pushed one of those to around 180 mph  at Daytona in '60. It was equipped with Granatelli's Paxton supercharger(s). Speaking of  "Run what ‘ya brung"; the story was, Andy drove the car, as equipped, a long way, -maybe California- either before or after the run.Once in a while I prod my buddy into retelling a funny story. He thought he had  built a car that would run. He was motoring along, you know,  running within the safe design limits of his car and the road. When a rolling flash buzzed him. Sounds like something on the order of ARC effect, when he tells it! Funny story unfolds, about a hot-head, with a cross ram 300, looking for his girl friend!Rick Moran - Thanks for the post! Don't let your Dad's artwork slip away. A petty little thing; I'm sure meant to type Dodge not Ford,  Little Red Wagon. Tommy Ivo, I wonder if that "freight train" started out Buick powered, Ivo liked Buicks, probably wanted to shed the weight. What's a KB parka? Kenne Bell maybe?Last edited by denrep; 11-28-2007 at 11:55 AM.
Reply:Denrep.  I think your right. Dodge did make a Van/type pickup too.  Tommy Ivo did use Buicks, and I think he used multiple engines on one ride. The Freight Train was Peters' with Chevys and later Hemis.  KB= Keith BlackI think I hijacked Zaps post. Attached ImagesHobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepAndy -  Chicago native, and your namesake, Andy Granatelli, pushed one of those to around 180 mph  at Daytona in '60. It was equipped with Granatelli's Paxton supercharger(s). Speaking of  "Run what ‘ya brung"; the story was, Andy drove the car, as equipped, a long way, -maybe California- either before or after the run.
Reply:Aaaaah Yes, Mrs. Shirley Muldowney - a New York native - Schenectady to be exact! Despite being badly burned almost a half dozen times, she worked her way up in a male dominated sport during the late 60's and early 70's. To this day I remember her bad crash in 1984. I remember thinking after that she is definately a person with courage, strength and perserverance...coming back to win the Fall Nationals in 1989. A true inspiration. I think they made a movie about her afterwards.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I remember The Little Red Express he hit our town every now and then. I also cut a guys yard when i was a kid and he had an ex Mopar Missle car in his garage. But he got killed in it in about 1975-1976 or so in Indy. I learned alot about cyl head polishing from him when i was supposed to be doing his yard work...BobBob WrightSalem, Ohio  Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drillhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawking/1999 Miller MM185 w/ Miller 185 Spoolmate spoolgun
Reply:I had the opportunity to speak with most of the guy surrounding "Grumpy" Bill Jenkins including him himself. Its amazing some of the stuff they are just now revealing that they did to their cars back then to get them down the track just a little bit faster.One of his head mechanics revealed that they would get pit inspected every once and again and they'd use a magnet on the body to make sure they weren't running fiberglass parts. He still had a fender from one of the original belvederes and from the backside, you could clearly see that it had roughly 200-300 1/2" holes drilled in it and filled with fiberglass. Neat little way to shave the extra few pounds and still have a magnet stick.Same goes for acid-dipping body parts.I still get all woozy looking at those A/FX cars
Reply:Dont forget about the full lead helmet that made the weigh in "good".. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Speaking of A/FX cars and that era. I have a Big block 1964 T-Bolt clone tucked away in my boys garage. I have had it for 18 years...BobBob WrightSalem, Ohio  Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drillhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawking/1999 Miller MM185 w/ Miller 185 Spoolmate spoolgun
Reply:Originally Posted by aametalmasterSpeaking of A/FX cars and that era. I have a Big block 1964 T-Bolt clone tucked away in my boys garage. I have had it for 18 years...Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster   Well where's the pics????????????????????????...zap!
Reply:Car is undergoing a tube chassis and a Heidts Mustang II front end. Finally going to get it done right. I will post some pics when i can...BobBob WrightSalem, Ohio  Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drillhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawking/1999 Miller MM185 w/ Miller 185 Spoolmate spoolgun
Reply:Originally Posted by aametalmasterCar is undergoing a tube chassis and a Heidts Mustang II front end. Finally going to get it done right. I will post some pics when i can...Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou have been holding out on us...   ...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by EnderOh simmer down zap. After all, it IS only a Ford
Reply:I was lucky enough to have a 73 cuda 440 6pac 3 speed slap stick at an early age.I was also stupid enough to think I could handle all she had and promptly wrapped it around a tree on a farm.Prices of classic mopars are so inflated at present I can't even get a shell or roller without taking a bath on the price.I'll just have to wait for the market to pop. Soon, hopefully. I ain't getting no younger
Reply:Originally Posted by EnderPrices of classic mopars are so inflated at present I can't even get a shell or roller without taking a bath on the price.
Reply:It was either park these photos  here, in this washed up old thread - or delete 'em. It's up to Zap and Bob now! I shot these at an auction; Phoenix, Jan 2007. No other detailed info. Don't recall the car: Attachment 14864'64 Mercury Marauder:Attachment 14862'56 Eldorado ? : Attachment 14863Last edited by denrep; 02-22-2009 at 07:50 PM.
Reply:But notice the single cup master cylinder on the Merc..Dangerous!!But correct.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by EnderIPrices of classic mopars are so inflated at present I can't even get a shell or roller without taking a bath on the price.
Reply:You got more Darts than they have at the local Pub!  Nice cars.  My Dad had a one, and I used to do some head work on them.  The 340 is a great motor for squeezing some extra HP out of.Hobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:Wow! And I thought 455olds had a wide intake.All this talk about cars is cool. For what it's worth, my first car was a 65 Valiant with a 225 slant six and a one barrel carb that would squeal the little 13" polyester tires and could leap railroad tracks in a single bound. (After a rebuild that found 2 pistons with holes the size of a dime in the top.)MmmmmmmmmmmmBeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrGooooooooooo  oodddd!!!!
Reply:I got a w$$$$. Wow thats cool and nice welding. Sadly aczeller is right the reason you dont see them now thay looked awsom but only woked ok and with the newer designs they are more eficiant. If I had my choice i would own one now. Infact in hight school I tried to build one for a 350 but my dad said no  so I only got started and had to quit. The car allreade ran in the mid 13s. Not bad for my first motor build all by myself. And the fun at school. I think I need an old car! Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B