$19.00 a gallon

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I just changed over from a air cooled torch to a water cooled torch and I just priced some Miller torch coolant at $19.00 a gallon,  anything less expensive out there that works just as well? Thanks Stoody
Reply:Well, I'll bet you a whole US dollar that if you put the MSDS for that $19- a gallon juice next to the MSDS for Dexcool you're going to find they are very similar.I've been running plain old green antifreeze in a TIG cooler for over 20 years without problems, and have another one under construction that will be running Dexcool, because of slightly superior heat transferr propertys.The main thing is to use demineralized water when mixing with the antifreeze.  Your tap water is a bigger source of problems than the choice of antifreeze.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:In our shop we use RV antifrieeze to prevent freezing in the winter.  So far there have been no problems.   These are Tregasskis  guns on Lincoln Powerwaves.
Reply:Franz, I have read your previous posts about Dexcool and what not, so I did a Google search for Dexcool.  Seems like alot of upset people out there who blame Dexcool for gumed up cooling systems in their vehicles.  Does this not concern you?  Is it necessary to run a coolant mix or will plain distilled water do OK.  And is there like a pool chemical to prevent algae growth?Lotechman,  you use RV antifreeze?  Does this prevent algae growth?             Thanks guys,  Stoody
Reply:"Dexcool. Seems like alot of upset people out there who blame Dexcool for gumed up cooling systems in their vehicles"Dexcool is a far superior product to green antifreeze, and contains less silicates and suspended solids.  It also has superior heat transfer capability.I see quite a few of the engines that get torn down, and the problem isn't Dexcool, it's FOOLS who insist on doing STUPID things, like mixing Dexcool with green and or other colors of antifreeze to make plastic.There is also a problem with GM gaskets, especially manifold gaskets, that has nothing to do with the Dexcool, the damn gaskets and mating surfaces they are supposed to seal flat SUCK.There are also major problems with water!  More batterys are killed by tap water than anything else, and more cooling systems are corroded to hell because of minerals in tap water.  Mixing with distilled water is probably superior to using demineralized water, but there is also a lot of curioscity on how anyone can sell distilled water for 99 cents.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:No matter your choice of coolants only use distilled, deionized or reverse osmosis water.  The difference between them is insignificant for the application we are discussing.Traditional ethylene and propylene glycol based coolants will not allow the growth of algae and other microorganisms if the concentration is maintained.  Glycols are quite toxic.  I would recommend maintaining a concentration of 25-50% or 1 gallon antifreeze to 1-3 gallons of distilled water.  The other components in antifreeze are sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate, benzotriazole (BZT) and sodium metasilicate.As far as Dexcool goes it is an ethylene glycol based coolant.  It uses an amine carboxylate based corrosion inhibitor.  It is a fine product in and of itself.  Personally I would not waste my money on it.  The issues that can arise in mixing the two far outweigh any benefits.1)  The two inhibitor packages are not compatible.  The traditional materials are alkaline in nature and the Dexcool is acidic in nature.  They will react with one another and create the problems that are fully discussed in the multiple lawsuits you can find on the internet.  Dexcool clearly is labeled not to be used with traditional antifreezes.  If some f***ing idiot cannot read her or she should not be operating or maintaining their motor vehicle and in my opinion should not be allowed to procreate.2)  The silicates, nitrate, nitrites and BZT are all used as metal surface passivators and corrosion inhibitors.  There are test kits available and booster to extend conventional coolant life.  The silicates are specifically added to passivate aluminum components.  The sludge that is typically drained is from inadequately maintained coolant system and is aluminum hydroxide gel do to a lack of silicate protection.3)  Amine carboxylate inhibitors do not do great in aluminum applications.4)  Lastly if Dexcool and traditional coolants are mixed there is the chance of creating a rather carcinogenic compound known as a nitrosamine.  Amines and nitrites can form these compounds.I was a Senior Chemist with Castrol for six years.Last edited by Shade Tree Welder; 05-30-2004 at 03:39 PM.Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:franz. this may be a lot to ask and if it is i understand. could you post a parts list for the cooler you are building thanks  ken
Reply:After 12 months I have not noticed any agea buildup in the coolers.  We had some evaporation in one of them.  I believe in keeping things simple.  RV antifreeze is mild and prevents freezing which is our main concern.
Reply:Shade Tree, that some serious brain food, thanks.lotechman, I thank you also.                                         StoodyHeck,  thanks to everyone.
Reply:Originally posted by dulknife franz. this may be a lot to ask and if it is i understand. could you post a parts list for the cooler you are building thanks  ken
Reply:Franz,Here's one of the Idiot stories.I was at a large premier outboard motor manufacturer (located in Fond du Lac, WI) a few years ago.  You'd figure that with all the Engineers floating around they would have a good maintenance program for their expensive CNC machine tools.  And all those highly trained experienced Union employees (notice I did not call them machinists) would know how to maintain those expensive CNC machine tools.Well, one day sitting at my desk I get a frantic phone call that our (Castrol's) hydraulic oil f-up Mercury's 12 brand new Cinncinati CNC Grinders.  All the hydraulics are gummed up and varnished.  Well I was up there just a few months before and made written lube recommendations for all the machine tools including the new grinders.  In the new grinders I recommended R&O 32 based on the machine tool manuals.  So we got samples submitted to the lab and had the analysis started and I took a ride north.  Well while I was at the customer the next day and started piecing the mess together.  I got a call from the lab that confirmed what I had already figured out.  The brain dead idiots mixed R&O and AW hydraulic oils.  Basically, the same type of acid base reaction occurred as with the Dexcool and conventional antifreezes.  Only the result with the hydraulic oils is a varnish like residue in all them fancy servos, pumps and valves.   Shuts the whole damn thing done in a heartbeat!!!  To the tune of $50,000 per machine.  Now remember these machines are only a few months old and since the customer put the wrong oil in as make up against both my written recommendations and the Operations manual the warrantee was VOIDED.  And they had 12 machines.  That is $600,000 out of pocket and 12 brand new machines with no more warrantee.Now there was a mess and I do believe two gentlemen went home jobless after the dust settled on that one.Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:Good story Shade-Tree
Reply:I picked up a used Dynaflux cooler and needed a small widget. Called em up and they said they would send it for free- long story short I bought a few gallons of 'Defense RTU'- which is Dynaflux's version of ethlene glycol premixed. Mixed by Americans at an American company with thick southern accents-whats not to like"after a long day of doing nothing...its gooood to kick back" Pumbaa