How Much is TOO MUCH!!?

admin

hello, my name is KC, i am new to this sight, i have a question i need some advice on. i graduated from ISU welding, 2 yr degree, certified structural and pipe welder.Recently i had a plumbing contractor that is working for the home owner call me and say they need a lil bit weldin done, i agreed. The Contractor told me 10$/hr. I wasnt real sure what i was doing so i went to look at the job. He has a 15ft snow plow that he wants to mount the the front end loader of his tractor. I spent 5 hrs cutting the plow down (with my torch) so it'll fit on the buket of the tractor. after them five hours i got to thinking how much under paid i am gettin! i called the contractor and told him i need more money to finish the job. its 160 miles round trip to the plow. i guessed it'l take me 20 hrs and 3 trips to complete it. the best he would do is give me 1 extra hr for my gas! no oxy act fuel, no welding rod, no metal materials, NOTHING! -22 outside for 10/hr.  Finally he agreed to 20$/hr! so i said ok, $20/hr = 400$ (20hrX$20/hr=$400. **** hit the fan again!!  After my truck fuel, rod, cuttin fuels, metal and all, i wan profiting $6.75 per hour, for a mobile welder! sorry for the long story, but in the end i would like to know what you guys are chargin for a mobile rig etc, just to kind of compare so i no how cheap i really was working for. thanks!Last edited by kcrmp7; 02-03-2011 at 01:46 PM.
Reply:$75 first hour, $50 an hour after that, they pay all consumables...period! seems high but you aint doing it for free!
Reply:thank you kromweldr!
Reply:the contractor is probably charging the home owner 50-75$ hr for your services, as you are working for him.you work for that cheap with your own equipment and you are the goose who lays golden eggs
Reply:You agreed to the $10/hour before taking the job.   If I were the guy hiring you I'd expect you to stick to your agreement.  Chalk this one up to a learning experience and set your terms before you accept any future jobs ($/hr, who pays for drive time, who pays for material, who pays for consumables, etc).Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:hate to say it but you went in the hole, gas and oxy/ace was way more than you made! remember the pay reflects you, your vehicle, your machine and your tools...skilled labor isnt cheap and cheap labor isnt skilled, you are doing this to make a living not go broke, try and add up what your costs would be and go from there. my price might be high but i can work (after my 9 to 5 as a pipefitter/welder) as many hours as i want (welding for farmers and etc.) just dont sell yourself short, once word of mouth gets out there jobs will be easier to come by...hope this helps
Reply:thanks for advice, the contractor was makin money off of me, he is also losin his *** fast, so he tryin to make lil $, i agreed to the 10/hr  because he made it sound way different over the phone. breakin an aggrement i thought would be me finishing the job then charging him for way more, but instead i stopped 5hrs in and told him he's gotta pay for my truck fuel. i learned a very good lesson. i am getting numbers set, prices etc.
Reply:i did agree to the 10/hr at the start, and i was willing to keep that agreement, but i needed some $$ for fuel, that was my only request, i hope this guy will call another pro welder and see just how much $$ we're really worht
Reply:Mobile isn't our main work, but, when we do it's at $75/man hour.  Safety and practical reasons means 2 men on the job = $150/hr total.  Time starts when they leave the shop and stops when they get back to the shop.  That covers everything on general repairs (wages, insurance, fuel, truck pmt., welder, rod, oxy, acetylene, grinding discs, safety gear, etc. etc.)$10/hr would not begin to pay for all of that even though every piece of equipment is already paid for.  Hell, that wouldn't even pay my lowest guy's wages.Chalk it up to learning an expensive lesson and figure out what the hell you're doing before you go into the poor house.
Reply:Oh yeah, I guess I should add that material is cost+, meaning, a percentage is added on to the cost of the material.Alot of people don't add to material, but I figure pick up the metal, have it in stock, deliver it to customer, whatever I have to do costs me $$. Not to mention it has to be paid for by ME before I get the money from the customer.
Reply:Originally Posted by NMWeldsAlot of people don't add to material
Reply:thanks for all the info! i guess thats wat i get for tryin to help a buddy out!
Reply:SEAR, I don't mark up materials.  So now you know one place.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550SEAR, I don't mark up materials.  So now you know one place.
Reply:Recently i had a plumbing contractor that is working for the home owner call me and say they need a lil bit weldin done, i agreed. The Contractor told me 10$/hr. I wasnt real sure what i was doing so i went to look at the job. He has a 15ft snow plow that he wants to mount the the front end loader of his tractor. I spent 5 hrs cutting the plow down (with my torch) so it'll fit on the buket of the tractor. after them five hours i got to thinking how much under paid i am gettin! i called the contractor and told him i need more money to finish the job. its 160 miles round trip to the plow. i guessed it'l take me 20 hrs and 3 trips to complete it. the best he would do is give me 1 extra hr for my gas! no oxy act fuel, no welding rod, no metal materials, NOTHING! -22 outside for 10/hr. Finally he agreed to 20$/hr! so i said ok, $20/hr = 400$ (20hrX$20/hr=$400. **** hit the fan again!! After my truck fuel, rod, cuttin fuels, metal and all, i wan profiting $6.75 per hour, for a mobile welder!sorry for the long story, but in the end i would like to know what you guys are chargin for a mobile rig etc, just to kind of compare so i no how cheap i really was working for.
Reply:everyone pays  for tuition in some way or the other.. you learned a lot for not much cost..and don't think for a minute the plumber  didnt know how bad he was screwing you...
Reply:what weldbead said-he knows exactly wht going rate is, that is why he jumped at the chance.  you said first job etc, like someone earlier said "cheap tuition".  learning from mistakes are the best learned / remembered lessons.
Reply:People will remember that you didn't keep your word on a job a lot longer  than they'll remember that you did a good job.  Think about that the next time you take a job.
Reply:naa, it was more like the contracter is losing his business FAST, getting a divorce, and flat broke, so he is tryin to make money doing nothing. i trusted him as a friend, but i wasnt gunna work for free
Reply:Mobile for $10/hr?!?!?!Holy going in the hole quick Batman!#1 w/o any insurance you shouldn't even be welding for money. Sorry if you don't like it, but any legitimate business must have at least GL and (maybe) WC depending on the type work you do. Or at least be independently wealthy enough to cover the costs of a f***-up. (And something tells me that anyone in that position isn't going to work for $10/hr.)If you're going to do it for money you (we all) need to play by the rules. That means a minimum of insurance, and compliance with national, state, and local regulations. In many states (in the US) it's illegal to contract work at all (even skilled trades) without a license.#2 You never let the customer tell you what to charge, how the h*ll do they know what it costs YOU to do business.For any labor charge you'll need to add about 35% for the tax burden on you, plus the WC % if you carry it. Most businesses try to bill at least double their direct labor cost, and even at that it's not a ton of money by the time all direct and indirect costs are removed.To NOT mark up for materials is IMHO foolish. You had to pay for, pick up handle and deliver it so by not marking it up you're losing more money.After over 20 yrs in the biz I have found a minimum of 10% for the "friends and family you don't hate" deal, to a more "standard" of 30% to 40% mark up is the "industry standard".(On a side note to figure profit divide, don't multiply. Ex: 100 x 1.4 (40% right?) $140.00, better do do it this way: 100 / .6 {1-.4 (40%)= .6} = 166.67)At a couple of business courses that former employers sent me to they say average should be around 33% and up to simply maintain a sustainable business, never mind getting rich.You want me to work for  $10./hr it better be your gas, your consumables, your equipment, and your insurance, because you won't get me dragging mine out for that. Yup all that and you'd better come pick my sorry overpriced azz up drive me there and back and buy me breakfast and lunch, too.In case your wondering (still, even after I pissed you off) I charge $60/man hour for in shop, and $75/hr Mobile for one weldor, $125/hr for a weldor and helper.Brian LeonardAppalachian Ironworks L.L.C.434 Long Branch Rd, Marshall, NC 28753828 649 9966828 702 [email protected]
Reply:Just curious aw to where a person can find all the required licenses, insurance info, etc to run a business. I know it varys some state to state, i live in maryland.
Reply:Quote:Originally Posted by tbone550  SEAR, I don't mark up materials. So now you know one place.  ..... why would you not mark up materials???????????? How much do you charge hourly?
Reply:Originally Posted by kcrmp7hello, my name is KC, i am new to this sight, i have a question i need some advice on. i graduated from ISU welding, 2 yr degree, certified structural and pipe welder.Recently i had a plumbing contractor that is working for the home owner call me and say they need a lil bit weldin done, i agreed. The Contractor told me 10$/hr. I wasnt real sure what i was doing so i went to look at the job. He has a 15ft snow plow that he wants to mount the the front end loader of his tractor. I spent 5 hrs cutting the plow down (with my torch) so it'll fit on the buket of the tractor. after them five hours i got to thinking how much under paid i am gettin! i called the contractor and told him i need more money to finish the job. its 160 miles round trip to the plow. i guessed it'l take me 20 hrs and 3 trips to complete it. the best he would do is give me 1 extra hr for my gas! no oxy act fuel, no welding rod, no metal materials, NOTHING! -22 outside for 10/hr.  Finally he agreed to 20$/hr! so i said ok, $20/hr = 400$ (20hrX$20/hr=$400. **** hit the fan again!!  After my truck fuel, rod, cuttin fuels, metal and all, i wan profiting $6.75 per hour, for a mobile welder! sorry for the long story, but in the end i would like to know what you guys are chargin for a mobile rig etc, just to kind of compare so i no how cheap i really was working for. thanks!
Reply:The last two posts were dead on.  I made that mistake many moons ago and it cost me large.  I lost a ton of stuff and a lot of money too.  Rojo is definately not being cruel, he is being a realist.  In these times it is difficult to establish a new business and with minimal assets and experience it can come to a bad.  Welcome to the forum and please listen to these old timers, they have your best interest at heart and arent trying to discourage ypu either.  Next time be a little more carefull about how much you bite off and look before you leap.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:Congratulations, you are now a graduate of the School of Hard Knocks!"The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.Originally Posted by Bob the WelderCongratulations, you are now a graduate of the School of Hard Knocks!
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob the WelderCongratulations, you are now a graduate of the School of Hard Knocks!
Reply:You are right!  I know its been that way for me!"The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingMachineWhen you give a price you stick to it.  No matter how badly you did your bidding...Sorry, if it sounds harsh, but doing business means, "doing business"Are you insured?  If not, - $30.00/hr.Registered a trade name?  If not, -$20.00/hr.Workman's comp?  -$20.00/hr.Got the picture?Looks about $10.00/hr to me..
Reply:If you agree to do a job under agreed upon conditions then you should stick to the agreement.  The only way out is if something is NOT as agreed upon.  Your lack of experience at bidding a job is not a valid reason to wiggle out of said agreement, whether oral or written.Never go into something without knowing the score.  If things are as represented, you should stick it out.  It's called character.  On the other hand, if things are not as promised, you would have a right to refuse to do the job or renegotiate the terms.I have taken it on the chin before due to my mistakes.  I finished the job as agreed and took my licks.  The next time, however, I was a little more prepared.  There is always a time for learning, unfortunately, sometimes it's the hard way and sometimes costly."The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.
Reply:Originally Posted by A/C GuyI disagree. I am a contractor and if I ran into a situation where the asking price of the customer wouldn't make the job worthwhile, then I have the prerogative to stop work and re-negotiate. The customer in this case asked him to do a job for a certain price. He tried, but realized that it was a money loser, so he did the right thing. Stop work and re-negotiate. The wrong thing to do is to finish the job then ask for more money.On the other hand, if he offered to do a job for a given price, instead of the customer setting the price, then you are correct, he should finish the job for the agreed price. But since the customer set the price way below the normal price, he did the right thing.
Reply:must of been your first road job youll learn
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob the WelderIf you agree to do a job under agreed upon conditions then you should stick to the agreement.  The only way out is if something is NOT as agreed upon.  Your lack of experience at bidding a job is not a valid reason to wiggle out of said agreement, whether oral or written.Never go into something without knowing the score.  If things are as represented, you should stick it out.  It's called character.  On the other hand, if things are not as promised, you would have a right to refuse to do the job or renegotiate the terms.I have taken it on the chin before due to my mistakes.  I finished the job as agreed and took my licks.  The next time, however, I was a little more prepared.  There is always a time for learning, unfortunately, sometimes it's the hard way and sometimes costly.
Reply:Hey KC I think you did the right thing. It's also good to see another Idahoan on here. Are you in Idaho Falls by chance?
Reply:hey thank you! Pocatello actually