building a workable livestock corral / pen

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I am in the planning stages of building a workable livestock (cattle) corral from scratch, I am planning on using 2 3/8 pipe and 3/4 sucker rod for the main skeleton and probably 1 1/4" pipe for the gates.I have lots of questions,  are these the right materials?what type of rod do you recommend for sucker rod to pipe?  size and type (number)pipe to pipe? size and type (number)sucker rod to sucker rod? size and type (number)I plan on placing posts at 8' centers 24" deep (corners 30" deep) all driven in place.all 2 3/8 including top rail, sucker rod every 10 inches for a total of 5 rods and top rail at 5'overhead bracing on all posts in chutes and over gates.Is this deep enough?in addition to the corral it will include a crowding area (Tub), single file chute approx 20'  x 26"  and a head gate, loading chute and several holding / sorting pensThis is a small operation and will only be working about 35 head of momma cows with babies.I am figuring on a total size of about 40'x80' your opinions of size and maybe even some plans would be great. I have never  built one of these before and I will be doing it by myself so any mistakes I can take out now will save me lots of time in the future.If any of you have this type of experience, i could use your advise/expertise.I am not new to welding, I have several stick welders, a tig, plasma cutter, ACET / OXY Torch,  millermatic 200 wire feed and I just bought a Hobart champion 8500 gen / dc welder for this project.What kind of helpful tools do I need? such as pipe templates for angles, saddles, etc.   and if I can make them (pictures would be priceless)Any sources for good inexpensive long welding leads ( number 1 ) 50' - 100' would also be appreciated I don't want to be moving the trailer all the time.I am new on this forum so bear with me if I have this in the wrong section or if I have asked for things inappropriate.  Or even if my ideas are way off base, I am just looking for help.I am close to Northwest Ar and Southwest Mo so let me know if you are aware of cheap buys on materials in this location.Thank you all so much.JeffLast edited by toothpicks; 02-09-2011 at 10:57 PM.Reason: change heading and fonts
Reply:Last set of working pens i built was out of 2 7/8 pipe and 7/8 sucker rod. It was built at my Dad's place so we did it right and plenty stout. I really recommend running the sucker rod through the pipe if you don't want to do future repairs. It's a lot more work, but well worth it in my opinion. I would at least do that in the crowding areas. You mentioned you would be building a tub so that would be out of solid sheet material I'm assuming so that wouldn't be a factor there. Other places would probably be OK without running the sucker rod through the pipe (IE: large catch pens, traps, etc.) But of course that depends on what kind of cattle you plan on having in it. Sucker rod WILL break off of pipe when hit head on by wild cattle if it's just welded to the outside. (Don't ask how I know this lol). You mentioned bracing your gates overhead. This is a must, and I like to run another brace about 18" underground just as you have on top. Overkill? Maybe, but when your gates are as stout as the fence you need it. Also, I don't know what your ground is like there, but everywhere I have built pens I would dang sure go deeper than 24" for line posts and definitely more than 30" for corners and braces. As for materials, you sound right on track, your 2 3/8 and 3/4 rod will make a good set of pens. But I sure wouldn't skimp on depth...I don't know how many fences/pens/arenas i have seen that had great craftsmanship, but started to lean or shift after a few years because of insufficient post depth or setting. Like I said, it may be completely different in your area but in most parts of TX I'd go deeper. Best of luck to you and if you have any questions on any of that let me know I would do my best to answer them. I have a good bit of experience in building pens, and there is always something you would have changed after you use them a while!
Reply:I added on to a set like you're building many years ago.Someone else designed them and someone different set the posts.IIRC the post were set about 32-36 in deep in concrete.Parts of it were all pipe and other were pipe with heavy welded wire and an extra stringer in it.They're working really well still but from about a month after I finished them it was noted that some "man" gates would have been really nice.The two I added were probably 60X100' so they were a bit larger than you're building.They're used for "Longhorns" so they tend to get some rough use.It's a Bull leasing operation also,though with LH cattle the cows can be just as if not meaner.Leave at least the lowest 3-4 in open so a weedeater string or torch can clear weeds and such easier.Farm stores carry a "glove" like a car wash mitt for painting pipe.You will want to paint to prevent rust.
Reply:that is pretty much my bread and butter, building corrals and feedlots. that being said, i use 2 7/8 for line and corner, but at least 3 ft deep wth concrete, 2 3/8 top rail, 6 to 7 runs of rods , but you really want to consider using rod clips for attaching your rod to the posts. just an ingenous little invention of 3/4 by 1/4 flat strap pressed out that kindof looks like the straps that hold in your u-joints on your vehicle. i get them round here for bout 45 to 55 cents apiece, well worth the tmoney versus your time or your helpers time blowing holes in posts and your rods can still flex and move with the weather, just my .02, kwMM 251MM 135Lincoln Pro cut 55Bobcat 250Miller Thunderbolt ac/dcolder ac forneyJackson nexgen 3n13-Smith OP setups97 Dodge dieselMakita chopsawJet swivel head bandsawlincoln tig 300/30030a spoolgunpuma port. gas air comp.
Reply:Thanks for the advise so far, it seems that I should rethink the depth of my posts.  I also like the idea of the rod clips, it sure beats cutting holes in both sides of the post for each rod and should be stronger than welding them directly to the pipe while allowing for expansion and contraction.Any other tricks or advice will be appreciated.Thanks again
Reply:I grew up on a cow/calf operation in central KS and I can tell you to make sure and make the fences high enough.  Anything that they can stretch and get their nose over they will try and jump over.  The most docile cow in the pasture can get very cranky when confined in a corral.