|
|
I've been learning to weld on my instructor's Lincoln 135 with gas. Everything was going pretty well until I asked him to put in some flux core (so I could see the difference) and we flipped the polarity and started using it. At first it wouldn't even weld (we were using it on 1/8 inch mild steel), we just got spatter. Anyway we finally looked up the right settings and finessed it a little, and we did get a weld but the weld just looked terrible. Spatter everywhere, a weird crater running through the middle of the weld (he said it had something to do with silicon). Also more smoke. It just looked bad. I guess it could be ground down but still. Oh and I could hardly see the puddle which made things harder.My instructor although he's been welding for over 40 years, admitted to me he never uses flux core so he might have something wrong in the setup or technique... so I thought I'd ask here if this is normal for flux core or not.
Reply:Hello badmajon, there are a number of things that can affect the visual looks of self-shielded flux cored wire beads. How old is the wire and how has it been stored? If it has been out in the weather unprotected or even in a machine for a long perid of time, it could have picked up moisture which will affect how it welds and how the bead looks. You mentioned switching polarity before using it, is the gun/wire attached to the - side and the ground attached to the + side? this would be correct, if not, switch it again. How much stick-out? should be around 1/4" to 3/8" for .030, .035, .045 diameter wires. Use a drag angle with the gun and not a push, it should be run similarly to SMAW but without oscillation or manipulation for just a flat bead on plate. Play with the voltage and wire speed, particular diameters of wires have a sweet spot where they perform best. Try various voltage settings and then increase or decrease the wire speed to see if you can get it to run a stable and smooth arc. By going up and down in voltage and wire speed you will be able to figure out the best settings. Many of the machines in that category will have charts on the inside cover to aid you in finding starting settings to work from, take a look. Also, get back to the forum here and give specifics on machine type, operating voltage, wire size and even brand. You'll get much more concise answers if you can provide a bit more information. Best of luck and regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Hey badmajon,You really need to provide much more information to the forum to get relevant answers pertaining to your getting a viable solution. To you, & any other posters, please list all the data you can, ie., welder model/output power, wire mfg./type/diameter, your settings, thicknesses of materials, clean metal?, & type of joints. We are not mind-readers. Each piece of data allows us to determine a starting point for you to see an improvement & any other issues that you are having difficulty with.Allan Aevald has provided a starting reference & info. to insure you are on the right track. I'm gonna expand on his posting & provide some pics. First, I must say that any welding instructor who has welded for 40 yrs & not done flux-core, sure does not impress me or anyone else who teaches. Flux-core really is an excellent primer when weaning into MIG as your ability to learn the finesse of laying a good bead with any other type of filler would really be enhanced. F/C is a superb process that has excellent penetration characteristics, can be used with some less than optimim conditions, ie., outdoors, breezy days, or a bit of rusty/scale or dirty surface.Next, be sure of your polarity.....Positive(+)ground clamp.....Negative(-)MIG gun. To learn, get some fresh Lincoln NR211MP or Hobart E70T-11 in .030 diameter...... much easier to work with when you're starting out. You must use the "PULL" technique with f-c..... with slag, DRAG. Keep your gun angle between 80-90* for good penetration & maintain a 1/4" stickout(my preference) or 3/8" if more comfortable for you. Bear in mind that your tip distance from the work must be maintained & especially travel speed consistency. All these parameters may seem like a PIA, but will improve your success once you learn that each change in any one will alter the finish weld. Your wire stickout consistency results in a changing of the weld amperage as the shorter stickout, the more heat(amps), & the longer stickout, the lower heat(amps).Ok, here's some pics of a couple joints & thicknesses I did as a setup for a job. There are 1/8"(.125) & 16ga(.062) setup pieces to get my unit to optimum. I beveled the 1/8" to test penetration & you can do the same to check your weld quality. I welded a flat beveled seam, a T joint & a piece with a joint of 1/8" to a piece of 16ga.. You can see that the beads are nice & clean w/little spatter, & no burnthru on the 16ga.. That's the goal. The secret to the thin/thick joint is to start your bead on the thicker piece & "wash" into the thinner piece...... it takes lots of practice. Not gonna improve till you do..... & that's with any process. F/C welding is as strong as any other process, so do not discount it. It is a great simple process that works well. I have both 110v & 220v F/C MIG welders on my mobile unit set up for versatility & to work conditions.I hope this may help you get a better grasp with F/C & provide you with data to help you get proficient with it. BTW, at 67, I'm not quite as steady as I was 40yrs ago so the welds aren't perfect.....solid though. Keep us posted on your progress.Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:When you are using flux core wire (innersheild) you need to change the LINER in the gun cable.Flux core liner is for flux core wire. Solid core wire has a different liner.The size of the liner and the wire have to match.A flux core weld should look just as good as a SMAW weld.Innersheild IS A STRUCTURAL welding consumable.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Here is some NR-212 run overhead with a 57-year old SA-200 and a 26-year old LN-25.First picture is the root pass, second picture is of two passes on top of the root. I don't think it's possible to get Innershield to look just like Mig, I could be wrong tho. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:My little Fluxcore drops beads that look like 7018 with spatter marks....Hand too God..Ditto on changing the Liner, you also dont want to contaminate it when you switch back to MIG, Im told...Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the effort to help me out with so much info. As far as exact details go, I can't say since I didn't write them down... but I will print out this thread and show my teacher when I go to class again next week. I'm just wondering if I need to buy the $200 argon/co2 tank or not...
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomWhen you are using flux core wire (innersheild) you need to change the LINER in the gun cable.Flux core liner is for flux core wire. Solid core wire has a different liner.The size of the liner and the wire have to match.A flux core weld should look just as good as a SMAW weld.Innersheild IS A STRUCTURAL welding consumable.
Reply:Originally Posted by badmajonI'm just wondering if I need to buy the $200 argon/co2 tank or not...
Reply:Hello Sandy, I'm glad you asked that question I am wondering too. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I echo Sandy's question about Flux Core Liner versus solid wire liner. I hadn't ever seen that and had changed back and forth between FC and Solid several times, so I could weld outside or inside. Never had any problem really with either, other than the FC definitely smokes and spatters more than gas shielded wire. I have both a Hobart and Miller, and never saw anything about changing the liner in the respective book, and just as a quick reference checked online for Bernard and Lincoln Mig liners, and neither mention or even list a different liner for FC versus solid. I definitely could see the FC could be more sensitive to worn/damaged liner, since it's slightly less rigid?
Reply:Only one time have I ran a 120-volt machine, (Mig) and that was to help a neighbor set it up. But I can tell you for a fact Innershield type flux core wire in the larger diameters will not work in a Tweco model 4 gun. Now you may be able to get away with running say .035 or maybe even .045 wire in a Mig liner designed for 1/16. I've been told the larger diameter wires get hot enough to expand, and the Mig liners are too flexible, so the Innershield wire gawls in the liner.Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Flux core is harder to make a good looking weld, but it can be done.The flux core wire is the same dia. as the solid wire.They are both steel so I don't get the contamination cautions.I suppose you could put a .023 liner in a 120v mig. but they seem to feed .023 fine with the .030-.035 liners.
Reply:Originally Posted by badmajonThanks for the replies. I really appreciate the effort to help me out with so much info. As far as exact details go, I can't say since I didn't write them down... but I will print out this thread and show my teacher when I go to class again next week. I'm just wondering if I need to buy the $200 argon/co2 tank or not...
Reply:Fancy flux coreDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Admittedly I don't do much steel welding, all Ally and SS.On the reasonably rare occasion that I do, I have run Flux Core, Duel Shield and Solid in the same liner with no contamination or fouling dramas. Ever.(Well no more fouling than usual )A good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Flux core liner?????? WTF is that?Same catagory as blinker fluid!ɹǝʌo ǝɯ lloɹ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Reply:Originally Posted by TSORFlux core liner?????? WTF is that?Same catagory as blinker fluid!
Reply:I've ran both through the same machine. Makes NO difference.ɹǝʌo ǝɯ lloɹ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Reply:Ever run 5/64, or 3/32 Innershield through a Mig gun? It does make a difference with this size wire. There is a reason Lincoln and Miller both make dedicated guns for flux core SS. I really like Lincoln's K-126 gun, small and light.Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Ive seen the Local 1 iron guys here in chicago make some pretty damn good looking flux core structural welds. These were heavy columns about 4 inches or more thick, full bevel, run off tabs and pre-heat. Both vertical and horizontal all outdoors 50 some floors up in the wind. I wish I had photos of those welds, they were made with miller xmts and Lincoln LN-25s and some sort of lincoln wire- I dont remember specifically what type and size. But they were nice welds and they were QCd so id say it can be done.When I first started welding I used a 120v flux core feeder and it was a nightmare. Very poor results. This was probably due largely to my total lack of experience and skill, but possibly also a cheesey little welding machine.
Reply:I noticed a couple posts stating electrode - and ground +. I have never used flux core this way, it is always electrode + in my shop.Leo
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPEver run 5/64, or 3/32 Innershield through a Mig gun? It does make a difference with this size wire. There is a reason Lincoln and Miller both make dedicated guns for flux core SS. I really like Lincoln's K-126 gun, small and light.
Reply:Hello citizen smith, likely it was either Lincoln NR-232 or NR-233 and diameters of either 5/64" or 3/32". Big wire for big stuff. Best regards, AllanEdit: I am seeing a lot of talk about special liners for self-shielded wires. I believe there is some confusion here. Some of the "guns" that were referred to by one of the other posters are specifically designed to be used with self-shielded wires, they have the ability to be outfitted with liners that will accomodate wires from 1/16" to 3/32", maybe you can get smaller liners as well but I don't see why you would, considering their design and intended purpose. You can also get liners for gas-shielded capable guns (depending upon their amperage rating), that go up to these same sizes and still be able to run either self-shielded or gas-shielded wires. As to contamination issues, the only times when this might apply are when you are using stainless steel or other specialty alloy wires where contamination from carbon steel wires might be detrimental to the weld bead deposit. That's just my $.02 to add to this conversation. Best regards, AllanLast edited by aevald; 02-15-2011 at 11:13 PM.aevald
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomWhen you are using flux core wire (innersheild) you need to change the LINER in the gun cable.Flux core liner is for flux core wire. Solid core wire has a different liner.The size of the liner and the wire have to match.Originally Posted by CEPOnly one time have I ran a 120-volt machine, (Mig) and that was to help a neighbor set it up. But I can tell you for a fact Innershield type flux core wire in the larger diameters will not work in a Tweco model 4 gun. Now you may be able to get away with running say .035 or maybe even .045 wire in a Mig liner designed for 1/16. I've been told the larger diameter wires get hot enough to expand, and the Mig liners are too flexible, so the Innershield wire gawls in the liner.
Reply:Well then your sure in for a pleasant surprise when you switch polarities. It's strange, I've burned hundreds of 35# spools at different work places, They all had electrode +. For the heck of it I dug out my old welding books and they list electrode +. I'll definitely switch and try it out.Doing a quick google search and it seems the electrode - is used for thinner metalLeo
Reply:Originally Posted by NVWWell then your sure in for a pleasant surprise when you switch polarities. It's strange, I've burned hundreds of 35# spools at different work places, They all had electrode +. For the heck of it I dug out my old welding books and they list electrode +. I'll definitely switch and try it out.Doing a quick google search and it seems the electrode - is used for thinner metal
Reply:I see a lot of people thinking that when somebody talks about flux-core, it's automatically no gas for shielding and DCEN.The flux-cored wire classes are very similar to the solid wire clases, except when the letter T is used to designate the wire is tubular.Flux-cored wires are either self-shielded or gas-shielded, DCEP or DECN. There is usually a reduction in ductility with the self-shielded flux-cored wires.In the wire classes of flux-cored the letter T is in the AWS and CSA specification to designate tubular.T-1 , T-2 , T-5 , T-9 are all Gas-shielded with CO2 and use DCEP.T-3 , T-4 , T-6 are all self-shielded and use DCEPT-7 , T-8 , T-10 , T- 11 are all self-shielded and use DECNYou can make as nice beads with flux-core, look at tozzi gas-shielded flux-core beads. Hope this will clarify a little bit about flux-core wires.
Reply:Here's a quicky chart that's on Esabs site. Not all inclusive I'm sure but it has way more than I need to know. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson7_15.htm"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:I run MILES of flux core every day. It comes out really nice and smooth. I weld in any position and like to run vertical up weave or no weave. Its a fallacy about changing liners, you DONT have to change liners. We always run flux and hard wire in the same liner. I think its a sales pitch. The only time we do change liners is if we are running 1/16 wire as it needs a bigger liner to run smoothly through or stainless wire as you dont want to contaminate the stainless wire with mild steel.Electrode on GAS flux is electrode positive. Unless a special flux core wire says otherwise. Glassless wire is electrode negative. Normally. If you are welding with the correct gas, polarity and heat / wire settings, your welds should look clean, smooth and nice. Once people learn how to use it, its a beautiful wire to run. Only down side is the smoke and having to chip the slag. If you get the settings right, the slag should peel off. TozziWelding has a great example of a nice flux core weld. OxyLast edited by oxygen454; 02-16-2011 at 01:16 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyHere's a quicky chart that's on Esabs site. Not all inclusive I'm sure but it has way more than I need to know. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson7_15.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by DanthemanT-1 , T-2 , T-5 , T-9 are all Gas-shielded with CO2 and use DCEP.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomWhen you are using flux core wire (innersheild) you need to change the LINER in the gun cable.Flux core liner is for flux core wire. Solid core wire has a different liner.The size of the liner and the wire have to match.A flux core weld should look just as good as a SMAW weld.Innersheild IS A STRUCTURAL welding consumable.
Reply:Only thing I can think of that might contaminate Mig wire when running flux core SS wire through the same liner, is the graphite that comes on Innershield wire. It can be nasty, just don't know if it would effect the Mig weld tho?Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPHere is some NR-212 run overhead with a 57-year old SA-200 and a 26-year old LN-25.First picture is the root pass, second picture is of two passes on top of the root. I don't think it's possible to get Innershield to look just like Mig, I could be wrong tho.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPOnly thing I can think of that might contaminate Mig wire when running flux core SS wire through the same liner, is the graphite that comes on Innershield wire. It can be nasty, just don't know if it would effect the Mig weld tho?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPOnly thing I can think of that might contaminate Mig wire when running flux core SS wire through the same liner, is the graphite that comes on Innershield wire. It can be nasty, just don't know if it would effect the Mig weld tho?
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald Branscom"a 57-year old SA-200 and a 26-year old LN-25."And the person welding was ??? how old? LOLLooks like you got some welding time under your belt.Good job!
Reply:Originally Posted by DanthemanI see a lot of people thinking that when somebody talks about flux-core, it's automatically no gas for shielding and DCEN.The flux-cored wire classes are very similar to the solid wire clases, except when the letter T is used to designate the wire is tubular.Flux-cored wires are either self-shielded or gas-shielded, DCEP or DECN. There is usually a reduction in ductility with the self-shielded flux-cored wires.In the wire classes of flux-cored the letter T is in the AWS and CSA specification to designate tubular.T-1 , T-2 , T-5 , T-9 are all Gas-shielded with CO2 and use DCEP.T-3 , T-4 , T-6 are all self-shielded and use DCEPT-7 , T-8 , T-10 , T- 11 are all self-shielded and use DECNYou can make as nice beads with flux-core, look at tozzi gas-shielded flux-core beads. Hope this will clarify a little bit about flux-core wires.
Reply:We are still talking steel to steel. I have never had an issue running .035 er70 s-2, then switching right over to .035 fluxcore.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88They dont have to be ran with CO2, its the designation after the T-X that determnes the gas type, C for 100% CO2 and M for mixed gas, typically C25 |
|
发表于 2021-9-1 00:19:20