SMAW Welders

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First off I didnt know which forum to post this in, but seeing as this involves both Miller and Lincoln welders, I thought this would get the most responses and I wouldn't have to make two threads and clutter the mfr. forums.I became interested in welding over the summer, and when it came time to register for classes again I signed up for a Oxy-Fuel/Arc fund. class. We're almost 1/2 way through class and after a hard time getting the hang of oxy-acetylene welding, we've switched gears and started SMAW welding.I have been looking at both a Miller Thunderbolt XL AC/DC stick welder and the Lincoln AC/DC equivalent. Ive done some research on both and after using a Thunderbolt for the first time today in class, I wasn't very impressed. The voltage control knob was not very precise, most of the ground clamps were broken and the stingers could barely hold the electrodes.I know that most of these problems were due to the fact that the machines were used by many students that probably could care less if they broke them and have been in there for 2-3 years.I am looking for your opinions if you have ever had expierence with these machines and which would be more reliable, now and for years to come.My spending range is around $500 and I'm looking for a welder than can do both AC/DC welding with an output range around 225 or so. If anyone has any suggestions on other welders that may fit the bill please dont hesitate to reccomend.
Reply:Howdy!  Both manufacturers are at about the same place in these areas.  I know alot of it has to do with your local service techs / reps.  I have a high end lincoln machine myself.  an 8-425 amp inverter machine.  But I would recomend the miller machine in your machines class.  The ground clamp issues and stinger  (electrode holder) issues are not machine related.  THe knobs are not that great, but I am sure they got abused like every other machine in class.  I know the millers have a great arc on them in this machine.  besides that, I would go bye local backup bye your supplier/manufacturer of choice.  Don't skimp on your electrode holder, or ground clamp, cables or cable connectors or or or ....auto darkening helmet.  Even the 50$ HF one is really nice   comments for the best of those are all over on this board too.   Brian Lee  Sparkeee24
Reply:I agree with Brian...the factory electrode holders and ground clamps on both machines are not the best, but are relatively inexpensive if and when they decide to disintergrate.  I have had one of the lincolns and have used one of the miller thunderboldts.  I lean toward the miller, but that's based mainly on the controls.  Each makes a very nice intro-level machine and either would give you good service for as long as you chose to keep it.  Bulletproof aptly describes both machines.  Likely as not, if or when you decide to step up to a bigger machine, you will end up keeping this one for a backup.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:First thing I did when I bought a lil lincoln cracker box was replace the factory ground and stinger.   After that when I sold it to a good friend, he said, dang boy this thing in perfect condition.  I was about to take the ground and stinger off and put them on my bobus cactus, but then I thought that was kinda wrong.  EEither machine are fine for doing the smaller stuff, and even some larger things.   usually the length of the leads is what really tells you your in over your mnachines head.  Ive used my brother in laws 225 thunderbolt ac/dc, I had a lincoln 225 ac/dc.  Both machines I thought were very caparable.  However, I dint like the taps ont he lincoln as well, but only ocassionally.  Like on the thin stuff it bothered me. On uphill it was an issue, but hten I hardly ever did uphill, mostly vert down.  I will tell you the only reason I sold the lincoln was cause my kids were hungary and it wasnt makin no money as I had a bobus cactus and no 220V other than it for the lil one.  Previously I had used the lincoln out on the family farm building trailers, farm equipment and ornamental stuff.  I still miss that lil red one though from time oto time.  Miller and lincoln both make a good machine.  find a good deal, then strip off the OEM stinger and ground clamp,  I understand the theory if it aint broke dont fix it, well theres something to say about if you expect it to last get someting nce and beat the livin snot out of anyone who doesnt treat it that way lol.  I work with my tools for a living.  Yet you will find my stinger and leads some of the best on any job site, or id say better looking than many on this sites garages.  Thats cause I take pride in my stuff and dont want it wrecked.  It was said earily post that the students arent taking care of the equipment and thats why it looks the way it does. I cant agree more.  You looking for a job in the trade, welcome to my world.  At work, ive got one of the best running mchines.  Almost have to fight the buggers off my machine on a big job to keep them from destroying it. I have to be a real jerk at times.  And thats with higher end machiens.  With my bobus cactus, if im running off it nobody touches it.  But when im working in a shop like I am now I cant be quite so stingy lol.   But still you will understand why you see  cheaper machines in school.  Why in some schools they be buyin equipment every semester or year to replace what should be replaced only once every 10 or more years if that.  Yeah its lack of ownership, but not poor quality of tools.  I coiuld destroy a $20,000 welding machine about as fast as I can a $300 one, heck the 300 mgiht live a few mins longer you never know!  But again that aint my goal, dont buy em to look at, but dont buy em to replace em either.   Good luck guysCHRIS
Reply:welding is not a matter of settings or more settings are a place to start but it is more of a feeling and not settings as long as it works well ,,,,,you should start to get a feel for how it will work best for you........i have a thunderbolt and i love it
Reply:First I'd like to thank everyone that replied. I really appreciate you taking your time and giving reccomendations etc. I have decided to wait till summer, when I'll hopefully have a better paying job and get a ac/dc stick/tig welder. I've thought about it and I can spend 5-600 on a stick machine, or save and spend 1800 on a PT185.
Reply:both lincoln & miller electric welders or good, Shop around for an old 330 apb.miller is the best electric machine in my opinoin ever made . It's  stick & tig with H.F. and water cooled . excellent arc control tig or stick , great when welding alum. you can probably pick one up for that price . I think they quit making them mid 80's . I finally found me one about year ago , there are still plenty of parts for them , never going to sell mine , use it all the time at my shop.