Small Garage Press Part 2

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As I said before, after reading the replies from people here I decided to beef up the press.So I added some support to the uprights. Heres the pics. Again thanks for looking at the welds, and tell me what you think. Attached ImagesMiller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Ran out of wire on the first weld in the front left side [ only had HF .035 flux core ] What do you think? I cant tell a lot of difference myself. The first post was Lincoln wire .035 flux core. Attached ImagesMiller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:For 10 dollars I guess it isn't that bad a wire for 10#. Still I'll get some Lincoln Friday, keep this stuff for such emergencies. Also the last pic is were I got the Idea for this sloped uprights and all. Attached ImagesMiller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:No where near enough bevel on steel that thick. Looks like maybe 1/8" knocked off the edge. I would have ground back 1/4" minimum or 1/3 the thickness of the 3/4" material and laid up multiple passes. Single pass on a 110v machine aint going to cut it with material this thick.The extra supports will help. They would probably been better if they had been run to the top where the others tie in that puts the whole thing in tension. You have effectively shortend the unsupported lenght to the distance above where the braces tie in. I'm still wonder ing if you plan on putting in some sort of table to put the item on to press them or plan on using a very long stroke. Of course the parts may be quite large for all I know.If you look at the press you used for an idea you will note a couple of major differences. First that press is way shorter than yours. This reduces the bending lever and the moment that is applied to the joints. That press is just tall enough to get the item in to be pressed with the bearing or what ever. You will note for the length of the column the ratio of height to width is very close. That upright is maybe 3-4x as high as it is wide. It's short and fat for a reason to take the moment that the ram applies to the press. Same with the top plate. If you notice the distance away from the upright is almost the same as the distance the plate is below the top so the gussets from almost a 45 deg angle, and I'll bet that those gussets are at least 3/8" thick.Not knocking your project. I think it may be stong enough to do what you want. The proof will be when you try and use it hard. You do need to understand the limits of your machine and what it is cappable of doing well. I hate to say it, but projects like this give many the false assumption that thier machines are cappable of more than they can perform. (not saying you, just making the observation in general.) The welds look nice but they are not any where near strong enough for the material used. The welds will fail long before the material does and thats not the sign of good welds.Don't get the idea I'm jumping all over you about this. We are all here to learn. You generally learn more from your mistakes than your successes. A basic understanding of the physics involved will help you to design future projects. An understnding of why we feel the welds are poor, and how you could have made them better will help you plan to use your welder to its maximum useful capasity. Part of this is also to show others that looks are often decieving and help them avoid some of the issues you had.Good luck.
Reply:I'm no expert - but I don't think there is much penetration there. Your beads appear to be sitting on the surface - not fusing with the base material. You need more heat and a slower travel speed.If that is 3/4" solid like it looks to be - then those joints should be bevelled down to a 1/4" flat and you would need at least 3 or 4 passes if not more to weld them out properly. I'm not sure what size cylinder you plan on using but those welds will fail long before the material does. Of course - 3/4" solid is overkill for a shop press - so you may be okay anyway. If it were my press - I'd grind those out and do them right. But you could just get a 20 ton jack and test it.
Reply:Agree with DSW again - the design is better than before but an 'A frame' would be a better again.
Reply:DSW No offense taken I assure you. I understand your points, and concern honestly I do. And I think for the pressing out of an universal on cars and small trucks it will be ok? I could be wrong if it doesn't work for that then back to the band saw for something else to be made of the material. The ram I'll use for the press is from the H F 4 ton porta power it has extension pieces to reach the distance of the uprights. The welds are complete in there penetration to the root of the beveling. That is the reason they are..... humped up looking, to penetrate to the root, and tie in the base of each piece. Again thanks for looking and the advice everyone.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Its an improvement.  I would have ground the bevels almost to a point to get a better weld.Just put something in it and give her some power.  Instead of bending at the base, now it may bend just above the brace you added.  The bottom is now stronger than the top, you have 4 welds instead of the two on top. I changed a u joint today out of an Astro van.  Used a 2 lb hammer and vice.  I had to whack it really hard to get er started apart.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I think most likely it will do what you want. However I have had to use  a lot of force to press out the front end steering bushings on my old Plymouth.You have said  "The welds are complete in there penetration to the root of the beveling. That is the reason they are..... humped up looking, to penetrate to the root, and tie in the base of each piece."Yes you may have completely filled the root and gotten the weld to fuse to the base, but the pile does not show penetration. It shows the opposite. You needed to heat to melt deep into the base not just on the surface which is what you have.I think that maybe you are not quite understanding what we are saying about the penetration from your statement. I can not find the good picts showing penetration, I may be remembering them from the Hobart Institute materials used in my class but I dug out a few from millers site perdominantly to help explain it better. (Those of you with better info chime in, I'm doing most of this from memory about 3 years ago) If any one has some good cut and etched picts of good and bad penetration welds please post them up.Here's the first one.The top pict is showing what you are discussing. The botom pict is showing what we are talking about.Here's a slightly better one showing poor penetration     vs       good penetration.Heres how you can solve the lack of penetration issue to a limited extent by beveling ( the pict is for overhead but it applies in all positions)Most of these came from millers on line info on SMAW techniques but the same applies to mig.Hope this helps you to understand what we are saying better.Last edited by DSW; 06-26-2008 at 08:35 AM.
Reply:i like the weave u r doing, but some of those beads are cold=weak. get more machine
Reply:See the picture from your weld - bead appears not to be fusing to the base metal. Need to crank up the heat and slow down so that the toes fuse with the base material.Another clue is the size of the HAZ -  would expect it to extend at least the width of the bead beyond the actual bead itself. Yours is almost hidden by the bead.For what you want to do - it's likely good enough. While we all strive for full penetration - it isn't always necessary to get the job done. Attached Images
Reply:Thanks for all the advise everyone, and I agree I do need more machine. It's in my plans to get a bigger machine this year. I will test it out this coming weekend with something, If I can think of something that would be of a realistic application.... Again thanks, and this is the reason I like this group honesty!Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready