Advanced Tig Techniques

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Tig technique's for tube work. I have been tig welding for a bit and ready for some advanced stuff. I am looking to make some better looking stronger welds. I heard about "walking the cup" and would like more info. Thanks..Miller Dynasty 200 DX(love it!, well I did, now its a paperweight)Miller fixed it, haven't used it much yet $2900 warranty Miller 210 Thermal Arc UltraFlex 350Cobra Push-Pull Wire feedLots of other things
Reply:i've done tube chassis and roll cages...headers..intakes.. with tig...but i never heard of "walking the cup"... ... zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I am pretty sure that I heard that here...Do you have any advice?Miller Dynasty 200 DX(love it!, well I did, now its a paperweight)Miller fixed it, haven't used it much yet $2900 warranty Miller 210 Thermal Arc UltraFlex 350Cobra Push-Pull Wire feedLots of other things
Reply:Do a search here on "walking the cup" (use the quotes) you will learn all you need to know.  The end result is a beautiful looking weld, most would assume it was done with an automated machine.Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:walking the cup is not actually anymore "advanced" than freehanding, it's just different.  You roll the edge of the cup back and forth in a zig-zag motion along the workpiece surface.  You use the radius of the cup as a guide.  It's used to get very consistant looking welds, but requires a lot more space to perform than freehanding, so it's not too useful in tight situations.http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/WalkingTheCup.htmone of our members (Gaustin) has a very nice website that describes the technique.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I agree with Smithboy regarding the "Advanced" . One thing that I have noticed is that it is easier to teach a person to Walk the cup that has always freehanded than it is to do the other way.Both techniques complement each other. Here are some of my ideas of differences based on my own experience .1) Walking the cup minimizes the heat felt from resting your hand as needed in "freehanding" . IF your hand is actually "free" and not rested while welding, you are probably not welding as smoothly as you could.2) Walking the cup is often more difficult to do in restricted places because you must hold the torch handle. This does not prevent one from welding the backside of a joint freehand, then when the area permits finish the bead by walking the cup.3) Freehanding allows the welder a little more control in situations where there may be variations in root opening or groove angles.4) Walking the cup is causes less strain on MY hands and wrists in certain situations. When walking the cup, it is easy to pause during the weld by slightly lengthining the arc and repositioning my body. This body movement has little effect on what the torch is doing. With freehanding, the movement is translated to the tungsten easier. (In that respect, it can sometimes be a blessing in tight situations"5) Because of increased consistency, I can weld a little faster with more amperage when I am walking the cup (Unless I have to use my left hand)6) With freehanding, I sometimes let the pipe get too hot, the ceramic cup then becomes more slippery and may slip or slide when coming over the top on a pipe.I will probably think of some more issues and will try to post them later.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Where cup walking really comes into it's own is when doing stainless, if you can walk stainless is a piece of cake. where as free handing it can take a wee while to learn.The other point gaustin bought up about the root opening or groove angles I've found the reverse, in these situations I find cup walking easier, so there you go. Different styles even with the same technec get different results.StephenI'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:I have to agree with wirehunt on the stainless issue. Much of that is due to #5 and #6. Stainless absorbs heat slower than carbon steel and because of that, it is much easier to overheat the SS when freehanding. With freehanding, maintaing a consistant bead width and travel speed is much harder (In My Opinion) . Because of this, any short pauses or slowing down can overheat the base metal causing the weld metal to cool slower. Because of the slower cooling, the puddle may sag a little more.This staying hot longer can also cause the bead and surrounding heat affected zone to be exposed to the air while still hot. This causes the grey or dark colored welds.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:great info guys...from what I am getting I need more practice "freehanding", and  I am thinking in doing that I am moving back and forth between the work (in this case tubes). I am kind of stitching them together. I will assume I hit it with a little filler when I "peak" my side to side....Miller Dynasty 200 DX(love it!, well I did, now its a paperweight)Miller fixed it, haven't used it much yet $2900 warranty Miller 210 Thermal Arc UltraFlex 350Cobra Push-Pull Wire feedLots of other things
Reply:I saw this post and I am a little more curious. http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...walking+cup%22This is saying lay down a bead, then go back over it to "tie" it together. Anyone have and info, seems like lots of  $$ argon $$.Miller Dynasty 200 DX(love it!, well I did, now its a paperweight)Miller fixed it, haven't used it much yet $2900 warranty Miller 210 Thermal Arc UltraFlex 350Cobra Push-Pull Wire feedLots of other things
Reply:Originally Posted by LMGI saw this post and I am a little more curious. http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...walking+cup%22This is saying lay down a bead, then go back over it to "tie" it together. Anyone have and info, seems like lots of  $$ argon $$.
Reply:Very interesting technique, I'll have to give it a shot.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneVery interesting technique, I'll have to give it a shot.
Reply:its not the funnest way to tig, i cant walk the cup right handed, but i can left, and i can hardly freehand left but i make a beautiful right handed freehand bead.   next month when im done school ill get a vid of a guy at our work walking the cup left handed on our big spools..... its insane, he really works it
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidIf you like stainless that rusts, aluminum that cracks, and weak welds, go with it!!
Reply:Engloid is saying its proven method to do bad things.  Going back over the weld like has been stated is a bad idea, it will create problems with the weld.   It is seen, it is done in the world, but you wont find it done with inspectors around, or atleast if there following any code.  As far as knowledge goes, even if I dint already know this was true, I would believe it from Engloid.  Hes got practical experience and the degree to boot.  Also, Engloid is one bad azz Tig weldorIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Roger that, understood.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I pretty much figured heating and then re-heating any critical area was a no-no. The article just got me thinking,Miller Dynasty 200 DX(love it!, well I did, now its a paperweight)Miller fixed it, haven't used it much yet $2900 warranty Miller 210 Thermal Arc UltraFlex 350Cobra Push-Pull Wire feedLots of other things
Reply:The going back over I will agree with engloid, and further add that the stress levels on the weld are greatly increased with washing the weld in.  In my work, sometime it is necessay, but we do several heat treat operations to accomodate it.  Before the weld, the work is solution heat treated(annealed), after the weld, the work is put through a stress-relief heat treatment, then it is returned to it's proper hardness.  On top of all this, it is x-rayed after the weld, and then again after the hardening.  Bottom line to me is anything you do purely for asthetics is detrimental to the quality of the weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by XwelderBottom line to me is anything you do purely for asthetics is detrimental to the quality of the weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by smithboyX,I am glad to hear someone say that in public.  Many folks get caught up in how the weld looks more than how it performs.  A good weldor will make nice looking welds, becasue they are done properly...but, trying to produce a particular look sometimes gets in the way of making perfectly good welds.
Reply:The walking of the cup is a slow process?
Reply:Originally Posted by Rockskiits not the funnest way to tig, i cant walk the cup right handed, but i can left, and i can hardly freehand left but i make a beautiful right handed freehand bead.   next month when im done school ill get a vid of a guy at our work walking the cup left handed on our big spools..... its insane, he really works it
Reply:Originally Posted by alan watersThe walking of the cup is a slow process?