Boat fuel tank - Modified as modular fuel tank for engine drive welder.

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Boat fuel tank - Modified as modular fuel tank for engine drive welder.I've taken a cue from the TV programs that take a simple little couple minute thing, and make at least a half hour show out of it.One exception - For those who don't have time for the full program Denrep Productions offers the condensed program: Attachment 24163Portable boat fuel tanks modified to be used with diesel engines, as used with engine drive welders, portable generators, pumps, etc. The diesel's fuel system  requires that a fuel return fitting be added to the boat tank.For those still tuned in and wanting the blow by blow coverage:The modular fuel system has many advantages for smaller and infrequently used equipment. Such as: Always  running on fresh fuel, convenient fueling, easier control and dispensing of fuel, no fuel stored with machine when not in use... the list goes on. Tank #1, I drilled and tapped one of the fuel gauge mounting screws holes out to fit 1/8 NPT. Attachment 24164I then drilled the gauge housing for clearance. I reinstalled the gauge, replacing one of the original mounting screws with an 1/8 pipe nipple; this will be the fuel return pipe. I used a copper washer over the pipe nipple to ensure a sealed connection at the gauge top. The 1/8 pipe elbow holds the gauge unit in crush. The fuel return quick-coupler will be threaded to the elbow.It turned out okay but it was kind of slow going. Denrep Productions shies away from feature length programing; preferring works that stay within half hour time-slots. Metal chips from a drilling and tapping operation were a concern. The pipe nipple had to be carefully sized so that the tapered threads locked at the same time the copper washer was crushed and the elbow was located. And my new paint was caught in the rain!So I was thinking of a better way for the next one.When I was foraging for fittings I saw this tire valve...Attachment 24165...and Eureka! I had it! On the next tank, I would use a simple bulkhead type fitting in the tank itself. This would eliminate the tapping operation and the gauge drilling. The  inset shows fuel line clamps of the non-wrist cutting type installed on the fuel quick-connector lines. (The clamps are a little teaser preview shown at commercial break time, to keep viewers tuned to the Denrep channel!)  Tank #2 was sized up for fitting location:Attachment 24167After precision layout of the exact hole location, the tank was inverted and drilled with a Uni-Bit; this minimized chips entering the tank. The pipe nipple was installed with a brass washer, neoprene gasket and Locktite.Here they are: Tanks version 1.0 and 1.2!Attachment 24166Stay tuned for more.Now I have to find more garage sale boat tanks!  Last edited by denrep; 10-19-2010 at 11:35 PM.
Reply:The new ones are plastic!  I have one for my Lincoln G7, but just couldn't bring my self to use a plastic tank on a welder.  Nice set up.  Makes refueling easy as pie.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David R...I have one for my Lincoln G7, but just couldn't bring my self to use a plastic tank on a welder...
Reply:Great idea, check and make sure your garage sale tanks are not galvinized; will make heck of mess of diesel fuel system. Most tanks probably wont be.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Originally Posted by sunline...check and make sure your garage sale tanks are not galvinized; will make heck of mess of diesel fuel system....
Reply:AFAIK, the problem with a galvanized (or other) coating is the chance of crud/flakes/chips/etc coming off and then getting into the fuel system.Dip tube instead of a gravity feed helps minimize that problem.Inline fuel filter also helps there.Big diesel crud-filter and water separator filter could be rigged in too, for those opting for the extra filtering.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Galvinizing i.r. zinc will be eaten by diesel fuel and turn into a metallic sludge; very bad. Not sure on cad plating. Dip a chunk of galv plated pipe in a can of diesel and see what happens.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Great idea!  But yes, if the boat tank is galvanized you may want to use some sort of metal-deactivator additive.  BP Fuel News has a paper on long term storage of diesel fule which breezes over the zinc-copper issues:http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_inte...age_diesel.pdfThe sulphur in diesel fuel reacts with copper and zinc to form their sulphides.  Use of brass fittings which contain both copper and zinc should also be avoided.-MondoLast edited by Mondo; 10-09-2008 at 02:24 PM.Reason: pellstingMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Denrep, The G7 is known for fuel tank problems.  I had two with it.  First, its a water magnet.  It gets water in it and rusts.  In the winter it would freeze up the fuel system.  Pain in the azz.  I put a HUGE ford truck fuel filter in the line with it in a low spot in a loop.   That problem resolved.The second problem is it holds 3 gallons.  It would not make to lunch time on a big job.  I had to show up with cans of gas to run all day.  Some how I don't like having 5 gallon cans of gas on a welding truck.  I bought a Ranger 250 with a 12 gallon tank.  That problem is now resolved!DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Moonrise, Sunline, Mondo - Thanks for bringing up the zinc/copper/brass issue. I'm really surprised about the compatibility issues, because it seems like I can think of many OE diesel systems that are loaded with those metals; at least copper and brass.Almost every brand of diesel equipment used a brass fuel strainer. Copper lines and brass fittings and valves aren't so uncommon on diesel fuel systems either.I think I have seen gasoline boat tanks that look like they are galvanized. It seems like the diesel tanks used on light trucks and cars -when they were metal- had the same coating as any old gasoline  tank. Was that coat zinc based? I wonder if this is suddenly more of an issue with today's fuel blends? Is water and long term storage  an important contributing factor for there to be any serious issues?Here's a peek in one of the boat tanks:Attachment 24184Zinc, tin, cad, aluminum? At least it doesn't have the galvanized "barn roof" look. Well... maybe with those ribs it does!I poured some fuel in one tank for a simple test: Attachment 24185In a few days I'll check for color change of the fuel or tank coating. .The other tank is off and running, plumbed to a Perkins powered Hobart. I'll have to check on that one too. Originally Posted by sunlineGalvinizing i.r. zinc will be eaten by diesel fuel and turn into a metallic sludge; very bad. Not sure on cad plating. Dip a chunk of galv plated pipe in a can of diesel and see what happens.
Reply:If you did not have that sign on the tank would some pee into it?Muratic acid (from lowes or home depot) works well for getting zinc off of steel. Dilute it with water, and soak your part in a plastic container. I make a little pond out of a black trash bag with a wood perimiter underneath the edge of the bag, that way I mix up as little of the solution as possible. If I needed to do a long pipe, I would cut out a long strip of plastic for my pond (all one piece  of course)I don't know if there is some sort of hydrogen embritlement issue with using the acid, though.
Reply:Zinc galvinizing is the only diesel compatability issues that I am aware of. It has always been a no no to use galve pipe in a diesel system. Copper should not be a problem or brass either to my knowledge. Seems sulpher is the cuprit. Tanks can be galvinized on the outside with no problems its on; the inside that would mess things up. Gasoline doesnt react with zinc again as far as I know probably because gas doesnt normally have sulphur.. Will be interesting to see results of your test.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:There are dozens of variations of brass.  You can find a good list at wikipedia.org:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrassTrying to find a list of alloys that are compatible with diesel fuel isn't quite so easy. I think too that many people confuse brass (copper/zinc) with bronze (copper/tin).  All three elements and many others can be alloyed to make all sorts of variations, some clouding the distinction between bronze and brass.  My dad was a metalurgist and could talk about metals and alloys for hours.  I sometimes regret I did not follow his path.  I'd love to ask him to talk about this now but we would need to all join hands in a candle-lit room for a seance.  I will continue to research this when I have time and opportunity and will share what I dig up.-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Unless you are running off road diesel (red fuel) you don't have to worry about the sulfur as all fuel is either low or ultra low sulfur. Any fears of this can be easily overcome by adding an inline filter or two if your really worried about it. As far as long term storage of diesel I would worry more about algae growth or gelling in the winter if your in an area that gets that cold. Brass fittings sold for use on gas lines  (lpg) are fine for diesel, the only ones that might be questionable and really not enough to worry about as the fuel flows not sits in these would be the cast brass. But as I said all fuel except off road and even most of that now is ultra low sulfur. So unless your tanks are heavily galvanized or the galvanized surface has been scarred don't worry.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepI've taken a cue from the TV programs that take a simple little couple minute thing, and make at least a half hour show out of it.One exception - For those who don't have time for the full program Denrep Productions offers the condensed program: For those still tuned in and wanting the blow by blow coverage:Denrep Productions shies away from feature length programing; preferring works that stay within half hour time-slots.(The clamps are a little teaser preview shown at commercial break time, to keep viewers tuned to the Denrep channel!)  Stay tuned for more.:
Reply:Denrep, the latest trend here is for the producer's to give a summary of all that happened before, after each and every ad break. An easy way to stretch 15 minutes of program to 25 minutes!I'd not heard that there was a diesel/galv problem. I had a bit of a look on Google and on theElectronic Code of Federal Regulations, § 119.435   Integral fuel tanks.at this link: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.4.22.1.45.1That's a heck of a long link and is Coastguard related. Under integral fuel tanks it says: Gasoline fuel tanks constructed of iron or steel, which are less than 5 millimeter (0.1875 inch) thick, shall be galvanized inside and outside by the hot dip process. Tanks intended for use with diesel oil shall not be internally galvanized.I drained a couple of boat tanks of gasoline into my car a few years back. They were galv tanks and had sat for a while less than half full. Well, later that night I set of to drive 120 miles. It took nearly five hours as the white zinc oxide kept blocking the filter on the inlet to the carb. I had to keep stopping and clearing the fuel line (didn't find the filter until a day or so later) by blowing it back to the tank. It took a week and many many cleanings before all was right again. Moral of the story, keep the tanks full. I'd always thought that the gasoline would have kept the inner tank surface dry, allowing the oxidation to occur, whereas if it had been diesel it would have kept the surface "oiled" and inhibited it. Luckily I've never had diesel in the galv tanks and have replaced them with stainless ones."One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering)Mitch 180 (NZ)Lincoln SAM-400-220 + ?-400 Fordson Major + 2 x Tractapac Humber 80 + Procut 40 PlasmaMiller Spectrum 375