TIG - Stack o' Dimes

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Hmmm There are some days I wish my mind would stop thinking .. lol ..What , if any, is the proper spacing for these "dimes" when you are TIG'n ?I have seen beads on here where there are alot of them close together .. and seen not so many, further apart...  all overlapping in either case.   but just wondering if there was some rule of thumb or standard on it? What would a certification test require??  TIARandy
Reply:Originally Posted by Lanmanb4Hmmm There are some days I wish my mind would stop thinking .. lol ..What , if any, is the proper spacing for these "dimes" when you are TIG'n ?I have seen beads on here where there are alot of them close together .. and seen not so many, further apart...  all overlapping in either case.   but just wondering if there was some rule of thumb or standard on it? What would a certification test require??  TIARandy
Reply:ok ... I must have worded that poorly .. I think your answer to me was based on my wanting to have more and closer spaced?? What I was wanting to know .. was is there something that says there should be so many per whatever unit of measure? or ..  so long as theyoverlap its ok ??  Is my question making sense?Maybe theres no such thing as a stupid question , only one's that arent asked correctly  LMAO
Reply:Originally Posted by Lanmanb4ok ... I must have worded that poorly .. I think your answer to me was based on my wanting to have more and closer spaced?? What I was wanting to know .. was is there something that says there should be so many per whatever unit of measure? or ..  so long as theyoverlap its ok ??  Is my question making sense?Maybe theres no such thing as a stupid question , only one's that arent asked correctly  LMAO
Reply:Can someone please put a photo up of the "stack of dimes" as I have no idea what your on about, well ok, some idea but not sure. Might be something to do with there's no such thing as 'dimes' were I live I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:hahaha wirehunt .. we will have to convert to your currency for an accurate description  ..  Yeah ... I know ... certainly function , strength , penetration is more important in the long run ... but sometimes questions pop into my head and I just HAVE to ask ..    you know .. like when you go out into the parkin lot and see a man with a coat hangar in his car window ??  and you KNOW what he is doin .. but you still just HAVE TO ASK ??   " Lock your keys in your car?"and of course he replies with " NOPE !!, just washed it and hangin it up to dry .. HERES YOUR SIGN !!  "  LMAO .ok that new copper 10 cent piece you have over there in NZ?  that is a Dime here ..  lolSeeing as I am going to practice my TIG'n again today .. I think I will try for the better stack ( for fun ) and also a nice smooth looking bead as well ... I guess they could both be goals.  I was also thinking .. TIG a butt joint , both sides, then mill it smooth , and then bend it and see if it breaks or cracks ..  Could be a penetration test ...  cause what ever wasnt milled off has to have penetrated LOLLast edited by Lanmanb4; 08-09-2006 at 01:17 PM.
Reply:heres what a "stack of dimes" looks like..http://www.weldingweb.com/attachment...5&d=1149029078this can be acomplished with aluminum..steel..stainless.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:ok, here's my question to all this, why is the stack of dimes so important? I mean, isn't it all about the quality, penatration of the weld? I don't make a pretty weld, "stack of dimes" but, I have a good solid weld that i can grind down and dress to a pretty weld.... Am I wrong to think this?
Reply:A good looking bit of ali welding there Zap, I'm always happy when I get ali looking like that, but never with s/s or carbon. I'm after something that looks a lot smoother.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:The whole "stack o dimes" thing came from gas welding or OAW. It is just making a puddle and adding filler. Most welders learned form hands on exp. and the weld appearance was the baseline for quality. If it looks good it will hold is the concept. The result of equal spacing is just a timing issue. The weld bead appearance will differ from process to material to position to welder. In order to maintain a clean puddle and uniform fusion and appearance, the "pitch" or stack should be smooth and uniform; this indicates heat and puddle control. You could just set the filler on the joint and continuosly feed the filler as it is consumed, the result will be a uniform smooth appearance similar to 7018 stick welds. This will work on any material, carbon steel, Stainless, aluminum.  Just remember the 4 F's of quality...If it doesn't affect Fit, Function or Form - Forget it!Weldtek
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldtekThe whole "stack o dimes" thing came from gas welding or OAW. It is just making a puddle and adding filler. Most welders learned form hands on exp. and the weld appearance was the baseline for quality. If it looks good it will hold is the concept. The result of equal spacing is just a timing issue. The weld bead appearance will differ from process to material to position to welder. In order to maintain a clean puddle and uniform fusion and appearance, the "pitch" or stack should be smooth and uniform; this indicates heat and puddle control. You could just set the filler on the joint and continuosly feed the filler as it is consumed, the result will be a uniform smooth appearance similar to 7018 stick welds. This will work on any material, carbon steel, Stainless, aluminum.  Just remember the 4 F's of quality...If it doesn't affect Fit, Function or Form - Forget it!Weldtek
Reply:One way to produce the "stack of dimes" weld is by pulsing the current.  The general rule of thumb for low frequency pulsed TIG welds, is to overlap the pulses by at least 70%.What I'm talking about is using a short duration, high current pulse, followed by a longer duration, low current pulse.  The high current pulse melts a spot.  The low current pulse is intended to allow the spot weld to partially solidify while keeping the arc established and moving the torch along.So depending on the frequency of pulsing, you get a series of overlapping spot welds.  If the top side spot spacing is less than 70%, it is likely that the backside weld penetration, which has smaller size spots, will have unmelted spaces between the spots.
Reply:I used to work in Aerospace as a Rocket Engine Technician at Rocketdyne. All of the welds that I saw when I was assembling engines were of the so-called "stack of dimes"" appearance. They were typically done on high pressure couplings for fuel and liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen tubes. Some were in stainless and some in aluminum. Every weld was inspected for appearance and also X-rayed. Once approved, the inspector would use his personal stamp on each weld so that the user could be certain that it had passed. The thing about the stack of dimes appearance that I like is that it shows good "puddle control. It also shows the viewer that the metal wasn't overheated or re-heated after being welded. That is important on an aerospace system but may not be all that important when working on something around the house.I was taught in welding school that puddle control in TIG is much easier if you get your puddle started, move smoothly and dip the filler rod evenly in the puddle like you are listening to a metronome. It's also important to shield the end of the filler in the gas flow so that it won't oxidize as you move it in and out of the weld area. I always try, but don't always succeed in getting that appearance when I do aluminum. I'm not building aircraft or rocket engines, though so, if I slip, I don't worry about it, I just try to do better next time.Last edited by gnm109; 08-11-2006 at 07:49 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109I was taught in welding school that puddle control in TIG is much easier if you get your puddle started, move smoothly and dip the filler rod evenly in the puddle like you are listening to a metronome.
Reply:listening to a little Metallica never hurt either
Reply:Originally Posted by elderthewelderlistening to a little Metallica never hurt either
Reply:i was told mostly the appearance of the weld is determined by the rhythm of the guy on the torch, most welders can tell there work as its there rhythm. a smooth bead with no ripples is much essayer to accomplish on steel than it is on aluminum, but then any weld is essayer on steel than aluminum.here is a purity smooth bead, well except for where i stooped and restarted, i was just playing so i wasn't concerned with the restart look just practicing. keep in mind i just cleaned up the outer 1/8" to 3/16" of the steel as it was just for fun, so wile you may see rust and scale all over the piece it is not in the weld. you have to clean the weld area even if you don't do the rest of it. Attached Images summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:On the above weld are you just fusing the corner? No filler?Justin
Reply:no, i was also adding filler as i went. you can kinda tell where i stoped and restarted, it was not a clean restart, i should have fliped back a tad with the torch befor starting in with the filler. like i said i was just playing so iwas not to woried about it. it would be easyer to tell if i could get a better close up pic. i'll see if i can still find the scrap and try again later if i get a chance, kinda backed up at the moment.i got way behind trying to get this bobcat cover finished to go out as i got the fabric late. came out great though, check it out. Attached Images summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:i have seen the same effect on really good mig welds but dont know how they do them.
Reply:You mean like this... http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYou mean like this...
Reply:Well, I could tell you how I did it but then I'd have to kill you!! J/K...I always weld downhand and in a circular motion.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:I am pretty novice, so my welds look horrible, but was wondering if this stack 'o dimes effect is possible with regular old stick welding?Lincoln AC-225
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabI always weld downhand and in a circular motion.Well, "Downhand" usually refers to welding a straight line on a flat surface. Basically indicating no "out-of-place" welding.I have always used the term (improperly I'm sure) to refer to the relation between the gun and my hand. Whether or not I'm doing out-of-place welding or bench welding, I refer to "downhand" as pulling the gun rather than pushing the gun (I call that "uphand"). I know some people will argue that you should "push" the MIG gun when welding but I have found that pulling the gun with a very slow hand speed is what works for me.As far as the size of the "circle", it really depends on what I'm welding and which Machine I am using. I have (2) SP135's, an SP170T, and (2) Power Mig 200's...each of which has their own capabilities and benefits for me.The welds in the pic were done with my Power Mig 200 using .035" ER70S-6, C-25 Mix at 12-15cfh. I made circles about the size of a dime (no pun intended).The best thing you can do to control spatter is clean the metal you are welding to. I always wipe the metal with Lacquer Thinner to clean off contaminents.- PaulLast edited by ZTFab; 08-13-2006 at 02:23 PM.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it."downhand", "uphand", whatever... The proof is in the puddin' Very nice welds, just trying to edumacate myself.
Reply:Ha ha ha....you said it. As long as I understand what i'm doing... Thanks for the compliment. I'm always willing to help answer questions...I just can't guarantee their correctness!!! http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:As far as the stack of dimes comments...my current boss had asked me once if I could TIG weld.  I told him that I could, however they wouldn't look like a stack of dimes as I tend to throw in a few nickels and quarters in the mix-not intentionally!   He thought that was pretty funny.  However, when it came time to weld up a Helicopter Blade box for a customer-they turned out pretty darned nice!  (He was equally impressed) As was the customer.    Personally-I could always do better, as was mentioned before "it just takes ALOT of seat time!".
Reply:I always wipe the metal with Lacquer Thinner to clean off contaminentsasitone would be a beter choice, the Lacquer Thinner makes some verry dangerous fumes when heated. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Here's something that's NOT a stack, this is a bit of a roughy, but you get the idea.StephenI'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:Looks like some "walking the cup" action. Is that welded downhill or rolled on a pipestand?Weldtek
Reply:A bit of both Weldtek.StephenI'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:looks like snake skin, real uniform, some of you guys just make it look too easy. great looking weld. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:To the original question.1. The size of filler used.2. The speed at which you add filler.3. The speed at which you move the torch.4. The heat or Amps you have the machine set at.5. The type of joint being welded.6. The type of material being welded.7. And most of all how consistent you can be.These are all the things that can make a tight stack of coins or a wide stack of coins. Every welder is different, were only Human!!!!I hope this helped clear up a little of the original Question.Brett B & B Fabrication and Welding Inc.Spalding, MI.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109That's very nice. It almost looks more like TIG. I wonder what sort of motion is used to get that effect with MIG?
Reply:Originally Posted by jimmyhatWhat is this for ?On a car or what?Nice weld!