AC Stick welding E6011 sheet metal boat

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I'm in the jungle of Venezuela and welding on a friend's metal boat. It's a canoe shaped boat make with an angle stock frame and then probably 3mm steel sheet bent over the frame and welded to the frame. The boat was neglected and in some spots about half the thickness of the steel has rusted in big flaky sheets and has come off. In the remaining metal where it's thin and also in some places where it's still full thickness the rust has eaten through in cone shaped pockets making small holes that I can usually weld around the edge some and then come across the pocket of rust to the other side and back to the center and fill it in with one quick weld. In some spots there's longer scratches which rusted deep so I'm needing to weld a bead which is a number of inches in length. In both types of welds I'm geting strange dimples or pockets and the bead is also thinner and flatter where I end the bead even if when I get to the end of the weld I do a few circles to fill in and finish the bead. I'm not a professional welder but I have some experience stick welding, mostly AC welding in the jungle with poorly stored rods but also some experience with a nice three phase 440v DC stick welder, boy that was a beauty. That machine made me look like a good welder, but it was the machine.Anyway, I'm using a Lincoln AC welder with 1/8" E6011 rods with the welder set on 75 amps, sometimes going down to 60 or up to 90 amps as the work warrants.I'd love it if people could tell me what I'm doing wrong. Be brutal. I want to know. Attached Images
Reply:Just out of curiousity, what in the water there will eat you if one of those holes busts out worse?
Reply:can you get 3/32 6011?  I would turn my heat down to 50-60 and run small circles or a quick whip technique.  I am so accustomed to the circle method on sheet it is almost second nature to start running with it.Last edited by Scott Young; 05-19-2011 at 12:42 AM.
Reply:Hi! I think you just need to keep the weld zone clean in between welds. When it doesn't work, grind it all out and try again. You will get there with patience and perseverance. That machine works much better on thick metal than on thin sheet! That job would be so much easier with an oxyacetylene torch! Good luck. Have fun canoeing! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBCJust out of curiousity, what in the water there will eat you if one of those holes busts out worse?
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott Youngcan you get 3/32 6011?  I would turn my heat down to 50-60 and run small circles or a quick whip technique.  I am so accustomed to the circle method on sheet it is almost second nature to start running with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverHi! I think you just need to keep the weld zone clean in between welds. When it doesn't work, grind it all out and try again. You will get there with patience and perseverance. That machine works much better on thick metal than on thin sheet! That job would be so much easier with an oxyacetylene torch! Good luck. Have fun canoeing!
Reply:Since you have been using 6011 rod, I assume the boat is made of steel. Brazing or welding will work with the torch. With brazing the joint has got to be cleaned of all paint and rust, then flux applied, then the brazing rod melted into the joint. With welding, the joint still needs to be clean, but flux is not necessary, just compatible filler metal such as  RG45 or R60, which work well on most ordinary steels. Cleaning a weld joint in preparation is always a good idea, it eliminates many hazards to accomplishing a sound weld. Heck, out in the field, a few packages of JB Weld could come in handy on a boat trip! http://jbweld.net/index.phpCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverSince you have been using 6011 rod, I assume the boat is made of steel. Brazing or welding will work with the torch. With brazing the joint has got to be cleaned of all paint and rust, then flux applied, then the brazing rod melted into the joint. With welding, the joint still needs to be clean, but flux is not necessary, just compatible filler metal such as  RG45 or R60, which work well on most ordinary steels. Cleaning a weld joint in preparation is always a good idea, it eliminates many hazards to accomplishing a sound weld. Heck, out in the field, a few packages of JB Weld could come in handy on a boat trip! http://jbweld.net/index.php
Reply:Is the water salt water?If it is, you can stop the corrosion by using some zincs on the boat hull.The thing wrong with using E6011 is that it is a deep penetration rod.It would be better to use a medium penetration rod like E6013 on that thin metal.Put some kind of paint on that metal too. Anything.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 05-19-2011 at 01:56 AM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomIs the water salt water?If it is, you can stop the corrosion by using some zincs on the boat hull.The thing wrong with using E6011 is that it is a deep penetration rod.It would be better to use a medium penetration rod like E6013 on that thin metal.Put some kind of paint on that metal too. Anything.
Reply:(1 inch = 25.4 mm)  So if your boat metal is 3mm (or 0.118 thick) then it is only slightly less than 1/8" thick (1/8 = 0.125) .  1/8" thick metal should be easily doable with an AC arc welder although I would use 6013 in a 3/32" diameter.  If you have a a 230 volt welder or better then I would also consider 7014 in 3/32" diameter.  7014 is very easy rod to use but it likes a few more amps than 6013 will require so 7014 is not a god rod choice if you have only an itty bitty welder.  6011 is great for rusty metal, but it is a deep penetrating rod.  6013 or 7014 will not penetrate as deep which helps you on your thin metal.  You will have to clean metal before welding with either 6013 or 7014.  If you still burn through with 3/32 then try some 5/64 6013.  Unfortunately, 5/64 is not a real common rod size, but it is available in 6013, but actually costs more than 3/32 - you sorta have to pay a premium for this oddball size.  Regardless 5/64 can sometimes be handy and is sometimes worth the extra cost when trying to weld thin metal with an arc welder.  (Note:  I realize that they also make 1/16" diameter rods, but I hate this size as they are so darned flimsy - like trying to weld with a spaghetti noodle.  If I have to use 1/16" diameter rods then I usually cut the rods in half to help with flimsiness).Since you are literally in the remote areas of the world where it may be hard/expensive to get acetlyene gas then definitely consider making yourself a "Twin Carbon Arc Torch" which will be powered from your AC arc welder.  Plans are available for making a Twin Carbon Arc torch for nearly free from the internet or you can buy a used factory torch for low cost from the internet.  With a Twin Carbon Arc torch you can braze metal, heat metal for bending, silver solder, release frozen nuts with or without flame, flame fill weld, etc.  (note:  Twin Carbon Arc will NOT cut metal and should not to be confused with Carbon Gouging which is a totally different process that does cut metal).   Twin Carbon Arc can actually burn up to 1000 degrees hotter then oxy/acetylene if desired and would be perfect for you in your remote area since no gas is needed.  Only carbon rods are required which cost like $10 and last a very long time - heck you can salvage the rods from flashlight batteries if real desperate.I use one of these myself - too cheap to buy acetlyene for my infrequent needs for extreme heat.  I can easily produce a flame silimlar to oxy/acetlyene with a rosebud tip.  Old time craftsmen could do even better and control the flame so tightly with one of these that they could literally use it like a poor mans tig welder minus the shieding gas of course.    Here are a couple Youtube videos of Twin Carbon Arc.  (Statements made during video are not 100% accurate but useful for pictures anyway - wear your helmet and cover all exposed skin if you use one of these as any exposed skin will severely sunburn).  How are 2 links on how to make a Twin Carbon arc torch:http://www.instructables.com/id/Make...volt-stick-we/http://books.google.com/books?id=VCc...%20arc&f=falseAdmittingly a crude tool, but they are a useful tool and even more useful in remote regions like where you are and very cheap to run to boot.Last edited by rankrank1; 05-19-2011 at 11:15 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by rankrank1(1 inch = 25.4 mm)  So if your boat metal is 3mm (or 0.118 thick) then it is only slightly less than 1/8" thick (1/8 = 0.125) .  1/8" thick metal should be easily doable with an AC arc welder although I would use 6013 in a 3/32" diameter.  If you have a a 230 volt welder or better then I would also consider 7014 in 3/32" diameter.  7014 is very easy rod to use but it likes a few more amps than 6013 will require so 7014 is not a god rod choice if you have only an itty bitty welder.  6011 is great for rusty metal, but it is a deep penetrating rod.  6013 or 7014 will not penetrate as deep which helps you on your thin metal.  You will have to clean metal before welding with either 6013 or 7014.  If you still burn through with 3/32 then try some 5/64 6013.  Unfortunately, 5/64 is not a real common rod size, but it is available in 6013, but actually costs more than 3/32 - you sorta have to pay a premium for this oddball size.  Regardless 5/64 can sometimes be handy and is sometimes worth the extra cost when trying to weld thin metal with an arc welder.  (Note:  I realize that they also make 1/16" diameter rods, but I hate this size as they are so darned flimsy - like trying to weld with a spaghetti noodle.  If I have to use 1/16" diameter rods then I usually cut the rods in half to help with flimsiness).Since you are literally in the remote areas of the world where it may be hard/expensive to get acetlyene gas then definitely consider making yourself a "Twin Carbon Arc Torch" which will be powered from your AC arc welder.  Plans are available for making a Twin Carbon Arc torch for nearly free from the internet or you can buy a used factory torch for low cost from the internet.  With a Twin Carbon Arc torch you can braze metal, heat metal for bending, silver solder, release frozen nuts with or without flame, flame fill weld, etc.  (note:  Twin Carbon Arc will NOT cut metal and should not to be confused with Carbon Gouging which is a totally different process that does cut metal).   Twin Carbon Arc can actually burn up to 1000 degrees hotter then oxy/acetylene if desired and would be perfect for you in your remote area since no gas is needed.  Only carbon rods are required which cost like $10 and last a very long time - heck you can salvage the rods from flashlight batteries if real desperate.I use one of these myself - too cheap to buy acetlyene for my infrequent needs for extreme heat.  I can easily produce a flame silimlar to oxy/acetlyene with a rosebud tip.  Old time craftsmen could do even better and control the flame so tightly with one of these that they could literally use it like a poor mans tig welder minus the shieding gas of course.    Here are a couple Youtube videos of Twin Carbon Arc.  (Statements made during video are not 100% accurate but useful for pictures anyway - wear your helmet and cover all exposed skin if you use one of these as any exposed skin will severely sunburn).  How are 2 links on how to make a Twin Carbon arc torch:http://www.instructables.com/id/Make...volt-stick-we/http://books.google.com/books?id=VCc...%20arc&f=falseAdmittingly a crude tool, but they are a useful tool and even more useful in remote regions like where you are and very cheap to run to boot.
Reply:Very impressive that you're a self made missionary and equally impressive how you have been able to say there as long as you have without any kind of financial or material support from churches or organizations.  I've got a lot of respect for you and what your doing there including all of what you have had to learn in order to take care of the the power grid as well as the satellite internet and the wireless system and to learn how to do some basic welding.  If anyone wanted to offer up some kind of help what would they have to do?
Reply:Originally Posted by takoateliWow! Thanks for all the great info! Thanks everyone who has replied too.The welder is 220 only and I think it goes out to 220 amps.So you're saying even though the 7014 rods want more current that extra current won't be as destructive with the 7014 rods as it would be with the 6011 rods? Interesting.I'm definitely going to look at and consider that twin arc tool! Crude is good down here. We do crude all the time. : - ) What I'm doing now (the way I'm fixing that boat) I'd consider crude.Thanks again!Greg
Reply:That is cool.I might have to make me a Twin carbon Arc torch to go with my lincoln.At the moment I don't have any acetylene either and wasn't planning on filling my tanks up here any time soon but could have used something like this to heat the bolts up on my grader blade to break them loose so I could turn my cutting edge over,I give up on it for now until I can get some heat on the nuts.I broke a 15/16" socket using a cheater on a breaker bar.D size batteries have carbon rods in them,6 volt batteries have longer rods in them.Last edited by dugndeep; 05-21-2011 at 02:34 PM.Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparVery impressive that you're a self made missionary and equally impressive how you have been able to say there as long as you have without any kind of financial or material support from churches or organizations.  I've got a lot of respect for you and what your doing there including all of what you have had to learn in order to take care of the the power grid as well as the satellite internet and the wireless system and to learn how to do some basic welding.  If anyone wanted to offer up some kind of help what would they have to do?
Reply:Excellent, I will talk with some friends and let them look through your webpage and see what happens.
Reply:I would also suggest some 1/16th 6013,  harbor freight sells it in a 2lb box I think.    works about 20-45 amps and really good for sheet metal...   I just did some stick welding with that rod and it was real easy without burning through...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparExcellent, I will talk with some friends and let them look through your webpage and see what happens.
Reply:The nice thing about the people I know is that they come from a broad range of disciplines and specialties most of which blend with the work your doing there and its possible that they would have contacts to help with cutting the cost of satellite and network equipment down amongst other things.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparThe nice thing about the people I know is that they come from a broad range of disciplines and specialties most of which blend with the work your doing there and its possible that they would have contacts to help with cutting the cost of satellite and network equipment down amongst other things.