New welder looking for TIG advice

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Hello all,I've read through the Welder advice for newbies sticky, and all of the subsequent threads linked there - however a majority of these were regarding MIG advice.  I searched this forum as well and was unsuccessful in finding anything relating to new TIG welders.I'm a new welder.  My only welding experience was on a MIG in high school, welded a complete custom dual exhaust on my 83 el camino.  They weren't all pretty but they worked.  In any case I am an avid homebrewer and DIYer.  There are numerous projects on my homebrewing setup where I could use a welder.  The reason I am looking at a TIG welder is because of the type of welding I am looking to do.  I would like to be able to do "sanitary" welds on stainless steel tubing/material.  I have no expectations of just being able to do this right off the bat, however I am a fast learner, and love to learn how to do new things.  I learn by doing, and realize that I will need to spend a large amount of time(money and materials too) practicing on making my welds be neat and clean.I understand some of the processes involved in creating sanitary welds (backfilling with argon or other inert gasses, importance of proper material prep and weld technique) so my first projects will be simple things like creating a welding cart, maybe a welding table, and various other odds and ends where I would normally use wood.I will be installing a 125A Sub-Panel in my garage where I will use the welder 90% of the time.  220 will be used 90% of the time.  I'd like a dual voltage capable machine in the event that I need to use 110 and weld something small elsewhere in the house or at a friend/neighbors.  I am having a difficult time understanding the differences in many of the welders available, and have mostly found recommendations on MIG setups here, not TIG.  Is there any reason I can't start with a TIG?  Is there any reason I have been looking at something like this: http://www.plasmametalcutter.com/pro...products_id=35The advantage being it can weld, and cut!  i'm big on multi-purpose tools.  However, I look at something like that and then there are hobart AC/DC TIG's running $1300.  My budget is ~$1000 for the welder.  I want TIG and being able to utilize a plasma cutter as well in the same tool would be awesome.  I understand there will be additional expenses in consumables, safety equipment, and other supporting tools.Am I going to be getting in over my head? Will I regret getting an 'all in one' type device?  Are my expectations unrealistic?Thank you for reading, and I appreciate any help.
Reply:If you just want to be able to do DC tig and dual voltage is important I would look into a used Miller or Lincoln inverter based machine in the 140-160amp range. You can pick up a used lincoln square wave or similar machine for less than a grand but it will be 220 only. I am going to suggest you avoid the import machines due to a lot of inconsistency in quality and customer service. A name brand unit will have local service available usually through you welding suppliers. Esab is another company to check out, they have been around a long time and make pretty good machines.As far as other equipment goes you will want a decent (not necessarily expensive) auto hood and an assortment of torch accessories, I will recommend staying with an air cooled torch like a wp-9 or wp-17 depending on how much amperage you need to handle ( I have both for different situations). For DC welding I recommend 1/16 or 3/32 zirconiated tungstens and pure for AC if using a transformer machine, With an inverter machine you can use the zirconiated for both AC and DC.With a budget of $1000 your options are limited, with 1500 things open up a bit especially if you dont mind buying a used machine. With 2000 you can have a very nice setup that can do just about anything a hobby welder will need (buying used machines of course).
Reply:You can get a nice setup for your budget if you are willing to go with used... x2 on avoiding the Import stuff .   get a quality brand.   even the old American brands that are not in business any more are great machines and usually parts are available from whoever bought them out.    My Airco 300 is just a rebranded miller machine.  I just got a L-tec 250 Migmaster which is the same as an ESAB migmaster as they bought out L-tech and Linde/union carbidre.   Plus if the machine still works now after all these years you can bet its going to keep working.   Let us know how thick of material you want to weld as that has a lot  of bearing on what machine u should get due to how many amps you need...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I'm fortunate enough to be able to put some flex in my budget.  I do not mind buying used in other areas however in this one I'm a bit hesitant as I don't know yet exactly what I'm looking for.  If i can get the justification/reasoning/logic  to up my budget to $1500ish I can do it, I just assumed $1000 for a hobby setup was enough.sorry I forgot about thickness of material in my OP.  I am looking at welding 304SS 14 Ga, and any other stainless tubing will probably be 1/8-3/8" topsany structural welds will be for things like a workbench or brewing table.
Reply:First thing that I'd recommend is that you go to millerwelds.com, click on the Resources tab.  There you will find an offer for their "Student Pack".  It's $25 including shipping.It includes an excellent Tig Handbook, a GMAW Handbook, a GMAW-P Handbook, and a bunch of other useful "goodies".The tig handbook will give you a "better understanding" of what's required to meet your needs.I'd advise staying away from the multipurpose (tig/stick/plasma) machines, as they're nearly all foreign and of questionable quality.  Give me a nice used, US manufactured machine (one I can get service/parts for) over a cheap import any day.Also, I'd look at taking a class at the local vo tech or CC.  Not saying you can't learn tig on your own, but the learning curve will be quite long.  It's not considered "the most difficult" of the welding processes for no reason.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I think you might have to choose between having AC capability, and having dual voltage, in your price range.  If you only need to weld steels, you don't need AC.  I don't think you can get a dual-voltage AC/DC around a grand, but I'm not sure.   The combo machines look neat, but almost everyone will tell you to stay away.  I did, and am still shopping for the plasma part separately.  That will cost more, but I will have two high quality machines that should last a long time, versus one cheap machine.  They will require more space, though.   Spam follows... where are you?  I have a nearly-new Miller Diversion 165 for sale if you are around here.  It's not dual voltage, but would otherwise probably fit your bill.__David Hillman
Reply:No problems with spam   I'm in Northern VA (just updated my profile to reflect that) As I continue to do more reading, and based on my usage, I think I'd rather have AC/DC than dual voltage capability.  There is a greater chance that i'd want to weld aluminum than for me to need to bring my welder in the basement to do something.  And hey i can always just run a really long extension cord right? Based on the quick replies here and other reading throughout - staying away from combo machines sounds like a good idea.  i'd rather do this right (or mostly right) the first time rather than regret my purchase for trying to skimp.  The plasma cutter is just a "wow that's cool" idea, i have a friend with one if I really need something cut, so it can be a purchase later.  On top of that, I'd like to purchase something USA made, I know it will cost more, but I like to support the USA when i can.For TIG only I had looked at something like this: http://www.toolking.com/hobart-50055...LAID=514382180the Miller 165 looks like the comparable unit.  I presume as with all hobbies there are people who enjoy certain manufacturers over others?are you looking to only sell local?  Is there a good resource that compares the Miller/Hobart/Lincoln AC/DC Tig setups in the $1000-1500 price range?  Thank you sundown- that looks like a good resource.  I have certainly considered the class, Definitely something I will have to look into.
Reply:The Hobart EZ Tig and Diversion 165 are in fact the same machine.  Illinois Tool Works owns both brands.    If you are purchasing a new unit, the only Miller/Lincoln/Hobart AC/DC TIGs under $1500 are those two boxes.   I'm trying to find a local buyer, because I want sell my Diversion with the cart that was made for it, which is too large to ship.__David Hillman
Reply:For your budget I'd look at something like the Lincoln Invertec V160.  It has dual voltage and weighs 25lbs instead of 250lbs.  I think they are about $1500 new so maybe you could find a used one a little cheaper.  Also you will have to figure in an argon cylinder and come to a compromise on size, if you want it to be portable.  We recently finished a large project at school that was 100% stainless and used a V205 for most of the tig welds.  The pulse feature will really make some nice looking welds once you get your brain, hands, and settings on the same page.  It is not a requirement though and many on this board could turn out better looking welds with a $800 machine than I could with a $3500 machine.  That should be a good indication that you should spend a large amount of money on scrap to practice on, LOL.Another thing you will have to learn to do is control or deal with distortion.  Thin stainless is a warping mother.
Reply:just found this somewhat locally.. http://frederick.craigslist.org/tls/2368157325.htmlold but emailed him anyways to see if it is available.  $1000 for a Syncrowave 180.  betting it sold as no reposts.  Thanks for that info David.  Is going with something bigger (like the 180) too risky for a newbie?  Is it better to learn on the smaller welders like the 165/ez tig and then upgrade later as I learn?
Reply:If you'll notice, I actually have a 180SD and a Diversion 165 right now.  The Diversion is for sale   There's nothing wrong with the Diversion, but the Sync 180 is a nicer machine ( and much more expensive when new ).   There's nothing at all wrong with the 180SD for learning, in my opinion.  It's not all that much more powerful than the Diversion 165, just 15 amps.  It's a lot bigger, though, and requires a lot more input power ( 225 pounds versus 50 lbs, and a 50a circuit versus 30a ).__David Hillman
Reply:shockingly that 180 is still available.  The price seems like a steal, other than how old  what are questions I should ask?  I know i'm a total noob but for the price it seems like a heck of a deal.Includes cart, gauge and torches and accessories
Reply:That's a great price, substantially less than I bought mine for.  Assuming the seller has 220v power available, turn the output selector switch halfway between DC negative and AC, then turn the unit on.  The volt and amp meters will briefly display the firmware revisions, and then will show hours and minutes of use that the machine has recorded, followed by the cycles, after 5 seconds.  As long as those numbers are reasonable ( ie not in the thousands ), I'd buy it.  Mine had an hour on it, when I bought it.  Otherwise, I'd just ask if everything works.  Some sellers might demonstrate that it does, if they have power and Argon available.  That'd be a bonus.__David Hillman
Reply:Yeah, that used Miller looks like a good deal to me. No such thing as having "too much welder" so long as you have the power to run it.I would seriously look into it, but make sure everything works and you're positive that you have the juice to run it.Oh, and if you can get the serial number, you can look up all the info about it on Miller's website.Annnd, I believe that unit looks new enough to have an arc timer, which tells you how much action it's seen down to the second, but quality transformer machines are pretty stout.mens agitat molem
Reply:Guy Said few hours on it, can weld to show it works and only a few years old.  Going to try to meet saturday.  Not used is why its for sale.thanks all!
Reply:Nice find. The Syncro 180 is a nice machine and an excelent machine to learn on. I started out learning on one years ago. It will allow you much more room to learn and grow than the Diversion's will. You will also be getting an excelent stick machine that you can use for heavier steel. One of the downsides of the Diversions is that they won't do stick. If you go to Millers web site you can download the manual for the machine. It will tell you how to get the arc strikes and run hours on that machine. Arc strikes will tell you how often the machine was used to strike an arc, run time will tell you how many hours the machine was powered up. Good luck..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hey all just wanted to thank you for the assistance. I went to pick this unit up yesterday, he gave me a bunch of alu rods too...$1000 seemed like a fair price, and the unit looks brand spanking new!  It has 53 minutes on it and the cycle timer was 11 if i remember right.   He did not have the ability to show me a weld on it, but given the shape of the unit and the low usage I jumped.  He had purchased it for a guy he hired that preferred to TIG vs MIG(what he uses) to use on the job, the guy subsequently quit a few weeks later and he's a MIG welder.Now to get my sub panel installed in the garage so I can start doing some learning!  Have a supply shop 5 minutes from my house so I'll be getting a tank and some consumables from there to do steel.  woohoo! cheers to everyone who helped me out in this thread!
Reply:Do yourself a favor and put the alum rods away for awhile. It's much easier to learn on steel. Get yourself some 3/32" E70 rods and a bunch of 1/8" steel flat stock to learn with. I assume he included the tungsten  and so on that came with the machine. If the end of the tungsten is green rather than red, you will want to pick up one or 2 3/32" red tungsens to do steel. Green is basically only for alum, though many use other colors to do alum as well. Let us know what size and color you have and we can let you know if you need to get something else or not..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:he gave me several pieces of tungsten, i do not know the diameter, but there are three or four different sized red tipped rods it looks like one is 1/16 and others 3/32, and a few green tipped rods.  and 3# of 3/32 alum filler rods...I'll put them away for now Next task is to pick up a tank, need to get my beergas refilled anyways so will be making the trip anyways.  I also need to get my wiring in so that I can actually plug this thing in!  Ordering a helmet this week too.