Dialarc HF good starter tig?

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I've been looking for a used name brand machine for a while.  I keep missing some Syncrowave 180s.  I've used a Diversion and it would get me going but I'd like something with a better duty cycle and and a bit more power.  I can't justify a new Syncrowave 200 or a Dynasty.  Application is motorsport fabrication, part time use.The Dialarc HF looks like a solid machine.  Any thoughts?
Reply:The Dialarc HF looks like a monstrously huge antiquated transformer machine.If you want to get into TIG, you're going to have to ask yourself which has more value to you; a brand name machine, or your money.  Buying a brand name welding machine is like buying an Apple computer.  You get a good product (no doubt about it), but you spend far more than you would have to... to get that level of performance.If your buddies are going to laugh at you if you don't have a big blue or big red, and you care; then your options are somewhat more limited.I had a whole long post typed up, but then figured that it wasn't what you asked for, so I chose to post this instead.  If you are interested in other options, I will post it."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:I've been doing mig, plasma and DC tig for a while.  I learned how about 35 years ago but just picked it up again not quite 5 years ago when I started building my own race cars.  I'm not a full timer but I'm not new either.  I'm buying for value and frankly the hit and miss customer service of the low cost import guys is embarrassing.  It's not worth it to me to save a few hundred for an off brand import.  One I might consider is the Eastwood.  They are stocking parts over here and I've dealt with them before and have had good experiences.  There are a few places in town where I can get the name brand machines serviced.  I'd much rather drop a couple grand on a new 200 amp class than spend 1500 on a no name import.  The potential for grief is not worth it.  I've read the manual, certainly old school, big iron.  This one is cheap, $500, includes a cooler but no leads or pedal.  That might bring it up to a grand or so and at that point I could hope to be in time to get one of the Syncro 180s that seem to go for $1000-1200.   The Dialarc doesn't have pulse or balance but I can live with that for now.
Reply:The Dialarc is a great machine and many are STILL in use. Does that tell you anything?As far as TIG I would look for a used syncrowave 250.And NOT one of these stripped down things from some institution on Ebay.You want a COMPLETE rig with foot pedal and water cooler and torch.Ebay drives me crazy!They sell used motorcycle engines that have had EVERY last thing stripped off of the engine.Including the the clutch slave cylinder,right and left side cases,sometimes the clutch and other parts of the clutch, carbs or injection, etc.,.And they call it an engine!!! Sorry it really is just about scrap. And now the greedy are stripping down the welding machines too.Make you bid on every last part to put the puzzle back together, like humpty dumpty.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevens . . .The Dialarc doesn't have pulse or balance but I can live with that for now.
Reply:a dial-arc is a great all-around shop machine way above an a/c buzbox enough power to tig 1/4" alum, burn 3/16 7018, push a 3/16" carbon and more you will be pleased... i learned to tig weld scratching a pre-HF the machine is single phase ans 230 and 440 capable all you have to do to change it is switch some bus bars under the cord cover. and for all the IDIOTS a dial arc IS a MILLER and the HF stands for HIGH FREQ!  GO WELD SOMETHING!Monstorusly huge welders have funny way of living forever no pc boards or dig. readouts to fry plus this aint so bigLast edited by bravofab; 06-01-2011 at 12:20 AM.
Reply:An Everlast PowerTIG 250EX does 250 amps at 60%, and 200 amps at 100% duty cycle, and costs $1600, or possibly less depending no when/where/how you order.  To get a comparable setup of a Dynasty it would cost upwards of $5000.  You can take a look at the forum.  There are posts where people are having problems with their machine, but the staff seem to respond quickly and are helpful.  Not even Miller is free of problems.  I would say that the presence of posts about problems says good things about Everlast; it suggests that they're not trying to hide anything.Jody of welding tips and tricks .com has made a number of videos of his 250ex and seems to be quite happy with it.  This guy is a professional/career weldor.  Here he is comparing it to a Dynasty when welding the bottom of a pop can.Some of the gripes some people have about Everlast machines are the lack of use of those left and right hand fittings for gas and water hoses, and use of  barb fitting on the gas inlet rather than another special fitting.  Also, I once heard a story about a miller plasma cutter being dropped 8' onto concrete and kept on going.  I don't know and won't speculate on how an Everlast machine would handle that, but that's definitely a feather in Miller's cap.  If you can manage not to drop your machine 8' onto concrete, that shouldn't be an issue.A fellow by the name of Oleg seems to be the one who runs the show, and posts regularly on the forum about customer service matters and such.  Here is one of the staff providing failure rate statistics.The 250ex is a good seller.  Back in Feb they were out of stock, and some waited two months from placing the order to receiving the unit.  It was over the time during the nuclear incident in Japan, so maybe that had something to do with the delay while the welders were on the slow boat from China.  Apparently all 300 on the boat had been spoken for for a while when they arrived."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:The no leads or pedal is a bummer. Didn't know that when I posted.  Pretty much a deal breaker.  I figure I can get better bang or buck with one of these iron monsters.  I'd like to keep it between a grand and 1200 all in.  The ABP 330s are out there too.  Most of the other brands I've seen are bigger than I think I need or some of the real good deals are 480vac and not switchable.  I've got 50 amps 220 single phase available and could upgrade that circuit to 100 amps, but I'd need to pull new wire.  Not a big deal.  I'd really like to do 1/4", in fact to make it worth it I need to be able to do 1/4" and do 1/8" AL  at a greater than 20% duty cycle.  Most of what I do is .083 to .120 tubing, DOM and REW and angle and flat stock to 1/4" but increasing doing some things that would be better served with a more controllable process or for doing AL.I'll keep my eye on that machine but will keep looking.  Thanks for the input.
Reply:Dialarc's are great reliable machines.  but the pedal and cooler can really cost you if not included,  I second the buying of older quality used machines. make sure to look at the brands denrep mentioned. my Airco is the same as the miller 330abp.  will run in excess of 400 amps of welding current...    if you have the 100 amp panel to support it, then its a great machine. bullet proof, etc.  I did just post one for sale local to me for about $600 with cooler and pedal.  people seem to be scared away by the size of the older stuff, which is fine cuz it means better deals for guys like me...   mine has adjustable HF and can be set to balanced or unbalanced wave for tig...  I am just learning tig but see some  of Zapsters stuff, the 330 is his tig machine of choice.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by razerAn Everlast PowerTIG 250EX does 250 amps at 60%, and 200 amps at 100% duty cycle, and costs $1600, or possibly less depending no when/where/how you order.  To get a comparable setup of a Dynasty it would cost upwards of $5000.  You can take a look at the forum.  There are posts where people are having problems with their machine, but the staff seem to respond quickly and are helpful.  Not even Miller is free of problems.  I would say that the presence of posts about problems says good things about Everlast; it suggests that they're not trying to hide anything.Jody of welding tips and tricks .com has made a number of videos of his 250ex and seems to be quite happy with it.  This guy is a professional/career weldor.  Here he is comparing it to a Dynasty when welding the bottom of a pop can.Some of the gripes some people have about Everlast machines are the lack of use of those left and right hand fittings for gas and water hoses, and use of  barb fitting on the gas inlet rather than another special fitting.  Also, I once heard a story about a miller plasma cutter being dropped 8' onto concrete and kept on going.  I don't know and won't speculate on how an Everlast machine would handle that, but that's definitely a feather in Miller's cap.  If you can manage not to drop your machine 8' onto concrete, that shouldn't be an issue.A fellow by the name of Oleg seems to be the one who runs the show, and posts regularly on the forum about customer service matters and such.  Here is one of the staff providing failure rate statistics.The 250ex is a good seller.  Back in Feb they were out of stock, and some waited two months from placing the order to receiving the unit.  It was over the time during the nuclear incident in Japan, so maybe that had something to do with the delay while the welders were on the slow boat from China.  Apparently all 300 on the boat had been spoken for for a while when they arrived.
Reply:Originally Posted by razerA fellow by the name of Oleg seems to be the one who runs the show, and posts regularly on the forum about customer service matters and such.  The 250ex is a good seller.  Back in Feb they were out of stock, and some waited two months from placing the order to receiving the unit.  It was over the time during the nuclear incident in Japan, so maybe that had something to do with the delay while the welders were on the slow boat from China.  Apparently all 300 on the boat had been spoken for for a while when they arrived.
Reply:you may be best of to go to your local welding shop and see if they will finance a 175 sq wave or a miller econo tig. both run about 1500 retail new but no cooler but you could rig one up with a new whip and a garden hose . i know there is some guy on ebay that specializes in the older pedals and i dont think it would run you >than a "C" note, leads would be about another $250 with a china torch and off to the races.. it is all about making it happen i picked up a maxstar 150 for $300 that no one would touch cause it had no tig torch or reg $70 later on ebay and i was tig welding with 110V still cheaper than a harbor freight machine!
Reply:I could afford a new machine, but with the amount of use it will get I don't know that I could justify it.  The local steel yard has the Square Wave 175 for about 1600 out the door.  One LWS won't match a new Syncro from IOC but they will give me some latitude on the bottle that makes it competitive.  AFAIK the Econotig has been discontinued but there is one a couple hundred miles from here for a grand.  My understanding is that the Econotig doesn't go low enough to do sheet well.  I forgot to mention in the other post I do a fair amount of 20-22 ga.  One of the reasons I'm looking is because I have a project now that could be an AL rear firewall/ package tray for a Miata race car, it's 30 sq ft or so.
Reply:bravofab; I do not work for Everlast.  Do you think poorly of me because of my foregoing post?  If so, please view my post history.  I would like to think that what I have said here over the last 4 years, 9 months, and 100+ posts would give me some level or repute.  I would be interested if you find any way in which I have tarnished would would have been an otherwise good reputation.dstevens; You are right, no doubt about it.  A two month wait, and oft out of stock is not a most excellent thing, nor is difficulty in getting a hold of someone at the company on the phone, or having to order vs buying at the LWS.  Again, it comes back to that question of what is most important to you.  Those things you mentioned come with a hefty price $$$ tag.  I am sorry if my replies in your thread were unhelpful or unwanted "Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:I had a Dialarc.  Built in 1978.  Solid it 100% working in 2008.  By 100% I mean every solenoid and timer etc.   Yes its a big machine, but it is a damn reliable one.As for capabilities,  DC TIG is pretty much DC TIG.I would not recommend the old transformer machines for aluminum welding.  It can be done, but it is harder to control the arc.Foot pedal is more expensive.   Expect to pay 50% more than the 14 pin foot pedals on more modern machines.Price of the welder alone should be in the $500 ball park.  Add a water cooler, cables, torch etc. and maybe 800.   There are people asking as much as $2000 but these are idiots and they will be sitting on the machine at that price.Along that line, the Radiator 1 and 1a series coolers are probably more reliable than the newer ones.  One single industrial motor drives the pump and cooling fan.  IMHO a bit quieter than the new ones as well.Miller still have service manuals and users manuals for these old machines and should you actually need a part sometimes Miller can get them.  As the machines push 35 years old you can understand that parts are tougher to come buy.  They do use discrete electronics so its repairable with a solder iron.If and when you are ready to upgrade, you can pretty much sell the welder for what you paid.  If copper goes up any more you can scrap it for what you paid.As for bells and whistles you are leaving behind by not spending that extra $1000-$7000.  Pulse - while it sounds neat, it is not necessary for 99% of the welding out there.Sequence controls - You have a pedal, that is your control.  I admit that sometimes out of position welding I don't use the pedal except as an on-off switch, but you can pretty much to the same with the Dialarc. The fancy machines add ramp up and ramp down.Digital gauges - Look, you only need to get the power in the ball park, you do the rest with the foot pedal. I put in the values I needed in a spreadsheet and had a lookup chart.  You don't need digital gauges and you certainly don't want to look at the gauges while you are welding.  My Dynasty tells me things like how many seconds left in post flow....  Who cares?  Until I hear the solenoid click off, I'm not moving the torch.Before you consider any of those features a necessity, imagine what the average welding job is like.  You have a joint, of a known material you need to weld.  You pick your amps, tungsten, cup, gas setting, filler and you weld.  Do you really want to spend time figuring out if 10, or 20 or 200Hz pulse is better?  What about duty cycle?  Ramp up and down timers?   If you are in a production shop, building 100s of the same thing, go ahead tweak it.  For the rest of us, just weld the damn thing.The bells and whistles are cool, but they will be unused!As for Chinese import welders.  Enough has been said about them already.  The good is the price / features.   Some have found them decent enough welders - from what I can tell the most successful with them are experienced welders who know what they are doing.  Personally I don't have the time to deal with unreliable tools - period!  Between my day job, wife, kids, etc. I don't have time to breath let alone fix my tools.  Even driving to UPS to ship a package is painful.  Bottom line, I will buy the used non-Chinese tool before I buy a new Chinese tool.  Buying a tool at Homedepot only to have to go back to Homedepot one hour later is very painful.  I don't care how helpful customer service tries to be.  That ends up being 3hrs of daylight that I can't get back.  For the sake of argument, say my time is worth $20/hr (which I think is way way low for truely skilled work), that's $60.  How much did I save again?  (BTW, this came about when I tried to save $10 on cheap import plumbing tool instead of buying Ridgid - never again).Don't even think about used Chinese tools.Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, ESAB are easy enough to find.  Craigslist is your friend.If you want to spend more, Syncrowave 250.   Above that consider a Dynasty 200 (and buy a Millermatic 251 for the heavy stuff).Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensI could afford a new machine, but with the amount of use it will get I don't know that I could justify it.  The local steel yard has the Square Wave 175 for about 1600 out the door.  One LWS won't match a new Syncro from IOC but they will give me some latitude on the bottle that makes it competitive.  AFAIK the Econotig has been discontinued but there is one a couple hundred miles from here for a grand.  My understanding is that the Econotig doesn't go low enough to do sheet well.  I forgot to mention in the other post I do a fair amount of 20-22 ga.  One of the reasons I'm looking is because I have a project now that could be an AL rear firewall/ package tray for a Miata race car, it's 30 sq ft or so.
Reply:I use a Dialarc HF every day at work for TIG work.It works well and the duty cycle is awesome.My only complaint is that the AC wave isn't adjustable and it can be a bummer..Yes, it is a monster of a machine but if you found one for 500 bucks with the torch cooler,IT'S A STEAL.....Sounds like you'll be doing a lot of work on steel anyway so this machine will DEFINITELY suffice. BTW, there is a tungsten "point" setup behind the lower front panel that must be kept clean and adjusted periodically. These are often neglected and performance will suffer. Often leading some people to believe they need a new machine. Anyway, I totally understand where you stand with this and this machine would be perfect for you.Good luck!Measure twice, cut once.Millermatic 211Millermatic 251Miller Dynasty 200DXESAB O/A Set-up
Reply:That old school iron is horrible, nasty, and bad.  The weight interferes with using it as nipple jewelry. Blue paint causes cancer.Send it to me for proper disposal.
Reply:one of the biggest problems with an old transformer machine that no one has mentioned here is power, & making sure you have enough of it. I was in a similar situation wanting to build some custom car parts for my own car & I also at the same time was just learning to tig but I decided to just go for broke & get the dynasty 200dx. after using it for a while I also bought a 300 a/bp just to keep at my shop so I could bring the dynasty home, & the 300 a/bp does a great job too... over 400 amps is great for very heavy aluminum too although I rarely come across anything that heavy to weldeven though I could just bring my dynasty in to work when I need it easily enough, having the 300 ab/p is good enough most times, but it will require a lot of power where the dynasty runs at a fraction of that power requirement, and the dynasty is better without question on new clean aluminum. it's not that the old transformer can't also weld the same aluminum but you will really benefit from the adjustably of something like the dynasty when it comes to aluminum... if you have the power & don't need it to be mobile & are willing to settle for perfectly usable & don't want to spend a lot then the old transformers are great, but if you really want to just do it once & do it right then screw it, go for broke, pick up a dynasty & don't look back...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocad6one of the biggest problems with an old transformer machine that no one has mentioned here is power, & making sure you have enough of it.
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensIndeed.  That's why I said...Most of what I do is under 1/8" or so with occasional 3/16" or 1/4".  A Dynasty is nice but it's a lot easier to spend someone elses money on the Internet.    After all is said and done it's  a 3-4 grand welder.  Ain't gonna happen.  I've got a line on a used Lincoln SW 175 Pro and a used Syncrowave 180SD and a 200.  If something doesn't click in the next week or so I may just get a Diversion 165 to tide me over then flip it once I get better a TIG and get a bigger machine.  A lot of the problem used is that locally there is little and the deals seem to be a couple hundred miles away.
Reply:Watching an online estate auction yesterday, they sold 2 Miller 330A/BP machines with tig setup for $800 and $500... also a 330st aircrafter miller with 1a cooler and tig setup for 1500.   try searching proxibid.com for auctions in your area...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Razer,In your first post you stated that "if dstevens was interested" you'd give him other options.  Dstevens knew where you were going and explained why he wasn't interested in the "imported crap".  That should have been the end of the story.  No.  You had to chime back in and "blow your horn" for the Chinese crap.  It's actions such as this that leave many of us with a bad taste in their mouths about the Chinese crap and their owners.  It's like they're always trying to justify their purchase of a "cheap machine" to themselves.Dstevens,The HF Dialarc is a tried and true, very reliable machine but honestly I think you can do better in today's market.  I have a Dialarc (non HF) with which I used the Miller HF15-1 high frequency unit.  Yes it would weld aluminum but was a pain.  Sold the HF15-1 and kept the Dialarc as a backup stick machine.If you are serious about doing 1/4" aluminum, you should be looking at a 250+A machine.  The 330 A B/P's had the power but lacked the balance control.  While you can get by without pulse when doing aluminum, the balance control adds a lot to your ability to improve the final product.  As mentioned before, the sequencer is pure "fluff" and not really needed.  Never had it with my Syncrowaves and have never used it on my Dynasty.I am somewhat biased since I've owned Syncrowaves since 1977.  My vote would be for an older Syncrowave 250.  The basic units will inclued balance control which will improve your welds as well as helping to preserve your tungsten.  I wouldn't even be considering the Sync 200's because of their limited output.  The old addage is "you can't use amps you didn't buy".  You will have to upgrade your electrical service to 100A to properly feed it though.A quality, dependable tig welder should be looked at as an investment rather than simply a cash outlay.  I've owned three Syncrowaves since 1977.  All were still operating fully when I sold them (upgraded for more features, not because they didn't work).  A while back I went thru and figured how much they had cost me over the years.  When I took into account the purchase price, maintenance cost (minimal), and the resale value when I sold them, it had cost me <$145/year to have a quality tig welder in the shop.  Not bad I'd say.  Wonder how the Chinese crap would compare.There are "deals" out there on good used Sync 250's.  You just have to be willing to put forth the time/effort to find them.  Just for reference, I sold my last Syncrowave 250, a 1986 model, with a Bernard cooler to a buddy of mine for $1,500.  He's still using it as a backup to his Dynasty 300.If you ever weld with a Sync 250, I guarantee you that you will not want to go back to a Dialarc 250 HF.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Thanks gang.  I just did a good deal on a lightly used SW175, complete kit with 2-80 cu bottles, collets, tungstens, electrodes and rod.  About a grand.  I really don't do any AL now but after some practice I'll do a package tray/firewall.  It will probably be 90% mild steel with some AL and 4130 here and there.  I've got a trailer mod planned and the stick should suit that just fine.  I'll be able to swap one of my T size (though the LWS calls it L ) back to nitrogen for the race tires when it runs out of welding gas.  A bit smaller than I was looking at but I'm going to need a couple months under the hood with it then I can flip it even if I lose a couple hun and upgrade to a Syncro 250.  Right now I could use a 250 amp class MIG than that big of a TIG.  My trusty SP180T has worked well for the last several years but it's getting to where I could use a bit more.
Reply:SundownIII,Was my post so bad as to demand such an unkind reply, perhaps this wasn't my first disagreeable post, or maybe I have been unkind to someone else previously?  Would you have spoken this way to my face? dstevens,I am glad you found an agreeable outcome "Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein