Bucket Extenders

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A fellow at work wants to make the loader bucket on his tractor wider for more efficient snow removal.  As it is now snow spills from both sides of the 5’6" bucket and leaves rows that get flattened under the wheels and needs to be cleaned up with additional passes.  He figures if the bucket was just a bit wider the problem of spillage would be reduced, at least it wouldn’t be under the path of the wheels, and he could do the clean-up in fewer passes.  Two limitations:  Bucket lift is 800 lbs.  Additional metal will reduce that.  The other is width: He has some 8’ driveways for which a wider bucket could become problematic.He wants the extensions to be simple bolt-on so he can put 'em on and take 'em off quickly.  I made up a full-size model from cardboard to test the concept.Pictured below is the tractor, then the bucket raised with a 16" wide cardboard model of an extender on the right side. Because of limitation # 2 above he decided on reducing that to 12" on each side leaving the overall width at 7’6".  My thought is 16" would have been very wide anyway and off-center loads will add lots of stress to the loader frame.  Weight-wise I estimate the extensions will be about 80 lbs each so he will still have more than 600 lbs of lift.The extensions will be built with a cupped edge that will "hook" on the verticle edge of the existing bucket and then get bolted through the side where there are two existing 5/8" holes. I have most of the fit-up details like spacers to compensate for the differnece in surface worked out - the existing bucket has a 3/8" reinforcement welded to the outside of the verticle edge so I will need to weld a spacer to the side of the extension back from the edge to make the flat surfaces mate up) and 3/8 x 4 reinforcing plate so the bolts don't get yanked through the side of the existing bucket. I think for snow this will work pretty well.  The only concern I haven't resolved is securing the back edges.  If he clips a tree or stone pillar with a corner of the bucket in reverse the extension is going to crumple like foil.  That actually may be a good thing.  It would be better to damage or destroy the extension rather than damage or destroy the existing bucket and distort the loader frame.It seems to me that somewhere in this forum there was a similar project about 8 months to a year ago, but I haven't been able to find it. Attached ImagesMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Looks like a neat project.  I think it's extremely doable.Here's a thought on one aspect of mounting the thing.  If it's gonna be used during the Winter, and needs to be readily removed/installed, I wonder if pinning it would be a good idea.  Cold hands, snow encrusted bolts, and patience could be a problem at that time of year.Attach a permanent arm to back of bucket so it won't interfere with daily use.  Attach 2 arms to extension also so that all 3 mate with pretty close tolerance.  It has to be fairly rigid.  Then it can be quickly attached by dropping the pin in.The fingers you plan for the front will work good.  Possibly some sort of lip/small shelf on bottom of bucket where the extension mounts to control up and down movement.  Or simply a hole thru both side of extension and bucket that can also be pinned to control vertical movement.  Probably near leading edge of bucket.Hope my "prints" are understandable.  At least it's a starting point for mods you'll come up with. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Farmersamm:Pin idea and drawings are great!  I like that.  I may modify somewhat, we will see as the project comes along.  Up/down motion near front should be secured with through-bolts in side.  See side view of existing bucket below.  I will plate that connection with 3/8 x 4 x 10" long oval bar on both sides (welded to "external" surface of extension to serve as spacer filler, and either free or welded on inside of existing bucket) to spread the strain.  But as the two existing holes are both relatively close to the front, they provide no clamping action at the rear.  A pull or impact from the back will cause the front hooked lip to act as a hinge with lots of leverage on those two 5/8" bolts.  The 3/8x4 plates will prevent the bolts from pulling through, but the rest of the extension will crumple.  Your suggestion of pins on the back will secure them at the back in an easy and simple manner.  The extension may still crumple from rear strain or impact, and that's OK.  I just don't want the damage to be done to the existing bucket and loader frame.The owner is an engineer and very methodical about the way he does things, he isn't prone to being clumsy, but in the winter when clearing snow all sorts of accidents can happen.  Attached ImagesMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:hey there...i work for Kubota building and welding the front loader assemblies for our Grand L series, DHM series, and M series loaders...the weight and design limits built into the buckets isn't to be exagerated or truely tested...they can do occasional limit work but you run serious risk of failure and tearing at key stress points if you try to lengthen the bucket without using proper stress relievers,,,just my $.02 since i do this everyday
Reply:I agree.This massey is a Japanese import.  It won't and can't handle the leveraged strain that is added to the bucket.  It puts all the stress onto the bell housing.  I've seen more than one of these tractors snap in two from the stress a front loader puts right into the bell housing area.  The material is only about 1/4 inch thick and is sometimes, depending on the exact series and year, cast aluminum.Additionally, these extensions won't self clean and the snow would constantly pack up. Any time saved would be spent cleaning the snow out of these little "pockets"Last edited by lugweld; 11-05-2008 at 02:35 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:railin93:Very good point and much appreciated.   I am very aware of the concerns you raise, so is the owner. I am sure he will be careful how he uses this with the extenders on.  In his own words: "Growing up on the farm, I’ve already learned those lessons the hard way… Don’t need to learn them twice…"-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldI agree.This massey is a Japanese import.  It won't and can't handle the leveraged strain that is added to the bucket.  It puts all the stress onto the bell housing.  I've seen more than one of these tractors snap in two from the stress a front loader puts right into the bell housing area.  The material is only about 1/4 inch thick and is sometimes, depending on the exact series and year, cast aluminum.Additionally, these extensions won't self clean and the snow would constantly pack up. Any time saved would be spent cleaning the snow out of these little "pockets"
Reply:sounds like you are basically plowing.. why not weld some wings on the bucket to push the snow to the side and widen your pass that way?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadsounds like you are basically plowing.. why not weld some wings on the bucket to push the snow to the side and widen your pass that way?
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldI agree.This massey is a Japanese import.  It won't and can't handle the leveraged strain that is added to the bucket.  It puts all the stress onto the bell housing.  I've seen more than one of these tractors snap in two from the stress a front loader puts right into the bell housing area.  The material is only about 1/4 inch thick and is sometimes, depending on the exact series and year, cast aluminum.Additionally, these extensions won't self clean and the snow would constantly pack up. Any time saved would be spent cleaning the snow out of these little "pockets"
Reply:Hell Mondo, of that's the bucket that came with the loader, it's probably been anticipated that the user would handle gravel.  Gravel is pretty heavy stuff if that bucket's topped off.Or do these little tractors just tip over on their noses?But now that you think of it, didn't Oldtimer have a water filled ballast on the 3pt on his smaller Kubota"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Instead of bolt-on bucket extensions, I'd really-really-really go more for the bolt on extension wings.Angle/scoop them forward and toward the bucket.  No extra lift load weight, just the 100 lbs or so of the angled steel and braces.If the machine could handle an 8 ft wide bucket, it would be available.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:If used for pushing, I'd make a blade like extension that  would pin at the top of the bucket, sort of like a root rake on a large dozer or track loader, make a simple spine for it and weld some 11 gauge sheet over it and attatche a cutting edge at the bottom for the icy areas.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammHell Mondo, of that's the bucket that came with the loader, it's probably been anticipated that the user would handle gravel.  Gravel is pretty heavy stuff if that bucket's topped off.Or do these little tractors just tip over on their noses?But now that you think of it, didn't Oldtimer have a water filled ballast on the 3pt on his smaller Kubota
Reply:I expect you will be asked to weld the axle shaft when his front tires start spinning on the ice in 4wd and then bite in.  It isn't really 4 wd but 4 wheel assist.  Many people think that if the rear raises a little bit its okay because the front can back it on out.  After being raised in the tractor business and being a dealer rep for a tractor company,  I can assure you a operator may get away with it a few times but it is bound to snap the shaft sometime.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerIt's for traction. A full bucket of dirt doesn't squat the front end much at all. The tractor just isn't heavy enough to push that bucket without some additional weight even with 4 wheel drive.
Reply:The oliver shouldn't need the weight but if since you got them,  they ought to be either used or turned into anvil material.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweld...This massey is a Japanese import....
Reply:You forgot India, Turkey and South Africa and England and the aforementioned Japan.Last edited by lugweld; 11-06-2008 at 03:38 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldYou forgot India, Turkey and South Africa and England and the aforementioned Japan.
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoNo, I didn't forget anything. I listed only those locations that Massey-Ferguson lists on their web site as places where they have manufacturing facilities.  I rely only on information that I can verify.  -Mondo
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersamm......So............. Waaaaassssup with the bucket???
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoSteel was delivered today.  I start cutting and grinding and welding Saturday morning.  Still a novice at this stuff I work slow and only hope to have it ready for delivery Turkey Weekend. Meanwhile I am keeping my day job.    -Mondo
Reply:A larger snow bucket was available when I purchased my Kubota Grand L tractor. The dealer said many tractor owners switch there buckets to the larger ones to move snow. They said that snow was no where as heavy as gravel. I remember years ago operating a Cat loader. The company put a snow bucket on it that was at least twice the size as it's summer bucket and boy could it move some snow.I really don't think adding to this bucket will make any differance at all as long as it's only used for snow removal. I built a snow bucket for an old Massy I had years ago. I looked funny with such a Hugh bucket and I never had an issue. Just my 2 cents worth.Miller 302 Trailblazer/Custom TrailerMillermatic 350P/Spool gunMillermatic 252Miller Spectrum 875Miller Dynasty200DxHypertherm Powermax 85Tracker CNC 4X8 Pro Table (Down Draft)Visit us @ www.specialtyrepairscustommods.com
Reply:Originally Posted by 4shortsA larger snow bucket was available when I purchased my Kubota Grand L tractor. The dealer said many tractor owners switch there buckets to the larger ones to move snow. They said that snow was no where as heavy as gravel...Originally Posted by railin93There you go...our Grand L series is one of our largest sellers and one of the industry leaders in respect to size vs. power...we command 33% of the worlds sales for 110hp and under tractors...LA1301,1601, 1251 are our largest for now until our LA 1403 gets going good.
Reply:Hello 4shorts:Where is the thread on fabbing up that snow deflector on the top of the Kubota loader bucket?  I know it is in here somewhere...  So are the pics of when you bought that tractor!  I just can't seem to find 'em.-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Doh!  Found it:  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=24977Well down the page.-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Progress check:I cut out the side plates today.  Used a sheet of brown "kraft" paper they sell at the building supply to make a master pattern.  Sprayed contact adhesive to the paper only, didn't clean the side of the bucket any more than to wipe off the loose dust.  Stuck the paper to the side and trimmed around with a razor knife then peeled off the paper.  Presto! Instant exact pattern!  Back in the shop I transferred that to a piece of 3/8 plywood, then used a circle drawing compass to set a line in from the marked edge exactly half the diameter of the plasma torch tip.  Saber saw cut around that.  In no time at all I had the four side plates pictured below.  (The second pic shows one of the plates clamped to the side of the bucket as a "test fit".)   Two are notched to allow clearence for the reinforcemnts on the edge of the original bucket.  The owner insisted on a design change:  Doesn't what the hooked lip I initially proposed.  He'd rather drill a couple more holes in the side of the bucket for more bolts.  Fine with me.  I think the hooked lip would have been far stronger, but the "customer' is always right.  If he has problems with them during the snow season I'll just get more work fixin' 'em.   Attached ImagesMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I hate perfectionists, they make slobs like me look really badIf the guy wants bolts, give him bolts"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by 4shortsAnd a fine tractor I might add. Love this tractor. Your doing a fine job. The welds on the tractors FEL and snow blower are second to none. Keep up the good work
Reply:Another progress update.  Sunday afternoon's work is pictured below.  Include a couple of shots of my Orange Crush in action.In order of appearence:12 x 48 panel cut from 24x 48 x 1/8 plate, marked for bending.  I love the Hypertherm Powermax 30 Plasma torch!  Custs metal like a razor knife in cardboard.Panel in the Orange Crush for the first bend.Orange Crush has 90° punch blade removed and fitted with a length of 3/4" pipe to make a radiused bend. Pretty kludgey wired in place with a coat hanger.   But for this small job it works! The press still has the 90° die on the anvil - I wasn't going to fabricate a radiused die for two lousy radiused 100° bends.  I just did them in three easy steps, feeding the panel a bit further through with each squeeze.One bucket extension assembly welded up!  I took a pic of one of the welds, but my phone camera just didn't capture it very well.    I really wanted to show my welds have improved significantly since I built the press.-Mondo Attached ImagesMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Now that you see the brake in scale, not just by itself, it's a pretty good sized tool.  And it damn sure works.Have you tried to find the max thickness it'll bend?You can see the welds, and they are much better."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Oh, and do you use a guide or a jig for the plasma?"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNow that you see the brake in scale, not just by itself, it's a pretty good sized tool.  And it damn sure works.Have you tried to find the max thickness it'll bend?You can see the welds, and they are much better.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammOh, and do you use a guide or a jig for the plasma?
Reply:I think the guy's crazy to want to bolt those on without the lip you figured on.  That's pretty thin material, and it might want to move if it's not restrained by anything more than bolts, unless there are a few near the leading edge with good sized fender washers to prevent tearout of dimpling.I think the problem isn't so much shear, as a sort of peeling stress as the bucket fills and trys to tear away to the back of the original bucket.  Does that make sense?"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I just did a day long fab job for a kubota/massey dealer friend of mine at his place.  It was an emergency type of thing.  He had sold a Larger Utility class Massey with an aftermarket loader.   The buyer wanted it with a bale spear and bucket.  The loader was quick attatch and the owner of the dealer ship did not have one in stock but had about an extra pin on bucket from kubota that he couldn't sell. He told the buyer his intentions and the buyer ok'd it to "convert" the bota bucket to fit the massey quick hitch style.I spent Three hours cutting the welds out of the kubota bucket hinge system and supports off and grinding them flat.   Kubota's main fault with their products are they are light duty. The bucket was maybe 3/16 thick, but I only managed to burn through a couple of times. Had to build a new quick attatch hinge system on the back using 3/8 material.  Would have liked to Mig it at my shop but I was at his and my engine drive is down for another few days.   So 7018's it was on his large Miller shop welder.  We used the universal hitch on a Gehl skid steer (he sells those too) for the pattern, since the buyer had already taken delivery.   It hooked perfectly the first time.  Hey... pictures would be nice.That;s for another thread.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI think the guy's crazy to want to bolt those on without the lip you figured on.  That's pretty thin material, and it might want to move if it's not restrained by anything more than bolts, unless there are a few near the leading edge with good sized fender washers to prevent tearout of dimpling.I think the problem isn't so much shear, as a sort of peeling stress as the bucket fills and trys to tear away to the back of the original bucket.  Does that make sense?
Reply:Good looking job, Mondo, but I have a question. How the heck do you keep your shop so CLEAN?
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerGood looking job, Mondo, but I have a question. How the heck do you keep your shop so CLEAN?
Reply:You use an abrasive cut-off wheel to keep the shop clean?I tried that, and it just made the shop dirtier.  Oh, you spray the fire extinguisher around and that makes it all clean?  I haven't had to try that yet, thank goodness.  Although I did set the lawn on fire when using the abrasive cut-off wheel in the chop saw.    But I used plain water to put that one out.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoI don't think he's crazy.  He grew up on his father's farm and been using tractors for a long time.I'm going to combat the peeling stress with 1/4 and 3/8 flat bar reinforcements along the bottom and inner edge where it mates to the original bucket.  Fender washers? Tose are good for... welll, fenders.   How about 3/8 x 4" flat bar on both sides tying the bolt holes together?  Watch for more photos next weekend.-Mondo
Reply:Samm, it's much better for it to point up a little than to droop.    Mondo, that'll work. Me, I'm lazy. When it gets so deep I can't find my tools I fire up the leaf blower and clean it out. Then I go outside and gather up what I want to keep. The way the wind blows here the rest of it is gone down the road pretty quick.
Reply:The bucket extenders are almost finished. I went out and did a trial fit today just before dusk  Just need some reinforcements where they mount on the existing bucket and they will be ready for paint. No pictures tonight due to lack of daylight.  I'll take pictures during the day tomorrow, if day job demands permit. While I was there I "flipped" the tractor over to look for a Made in Japan label.  I didn't find one that was worded like that, but there on a front-facing panel under the operators seat is a label with "Iseki & Co., Ltd. Tokyo" embossed on it.   So Lugweld was right! A bit more research I find that Iseki opened doors in 1936 as Iseki Farm Implement Trading Co. They started making tractoirs in 1961.  The units produced for Massey Ferguson are Massey designs manufactured under license.Not that any of this impacts the extenders I am making for my friend.  But it is interesting nontheless.More pictures tomorrow.-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:tomorrow finally arrived...  Put on the # 9 shades, the owner wanted orange for visibility so I painted them orange - flourescent orange.  Ready for delivery and installation. Attached ImagesMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I see the web you were talkin' about to stiffen where the bolts go thru into the existing bucket.Don't see where "cleanout" would be any more of an issue than on the main bucket.  Hell, even if a wet snow packs in there, at least he has the extra "wing" to push snow with.  I've seen wet snow pack a bucket so bad it becomes just about a dozer blade.  Shake it all day long, and it still doesn't come out."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The bucket extenders were finally installed this morning.  They bolted rignt up as planned.  The only adjustment was I had to grind a little bit off the bottom edge of the plates that go on the inside of the original bucket - just enough to clear the existing weld bead.We shall soon see how this holds up.  Snow season is about to start with 1-3 inches predicted for tomorrow.  Hardly enough to bother moving...  but I am sure more will be on the way before long.One thing is certain, the neighbors will sure see him coming!  When I arrived at his place this morning he was wearing a knit hat the same color as the bucket extenders!  -Mondo Attached ImagesMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:That just might be large enough to clear the state highway  It's gonna be great to see it push snow."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThat just might be large enough to clear the state highway  It's gonna be great to see it push snow.