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I have bee waiting to do this job for a while. This morning I left for the first day and it was 19 F when I pulled out of the driveway. Brrrrr.First I have these plates that need to be welded to the cell tower base ring with a "complete" penetration weld using 7018 or bare wire with gas. Once I figured out where they went on the 12 sided tower with 18 anchor bolts, I had to trim them for a full penetration weld. I used another piece as a guide. The plates are one and one quarter inch and of course hot dipped galvanized. The tower ring is 1.5".Rule #1......DON'T BREATHE THE WHITE SMOKE!Rule #2 no galv in the welds. It causes a ton of spatter and porosity. So I grind it all off where I am going to weld and near by too. This helps with rule #1.I can't weld the underside of the plates, So Its a single V groove. I cut and ground them to a 60.00 degree bevel. OK, I guessed. A double V would have been better, or a single J, or...... But today the only thing available was a single V.The plate, there are a total of 9 of emThis is where they goTorch guide. There is a 60" radius cut into them already, so It was kinda easy. Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:so are they beefing up the base of the tower so they can hang more stuff on it?insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:There is plenty of room to work , they are working on pouring some more concrete to go along with this job. Anchor bolts will go through these plates and some gussets too that will be another day. I tied my self into a pretzel to get at some. Today I got 3 on after trimming them.Here is the first oneThis is how much it pulled up from being a single V. I offset it some,but not near enough.Second one ....This one pulled up the same as the first one even though I offset it more. This is the third one, It came out a little above level when it was done. When doing the last few passes I could feel it move as I got to the end of the bead.First pass was with 1/8" 6011 first at110 amps then down to 90 to seal the 1/16" gap I left. I should have left a little land instead of grinding them to a point. On the third one I used 5/32 6010 at about 125 amps. It worked much better.Next a few passes with 1/8" 7018 at 145 amps, then 5/32 7018 at 190 amps. All lo hy had been in an oven.Tomorrow I plan on installing the last 6. I did the hardest ones first with the worst access. I probably only used 15 lbs of rod today because I spent the first half of the day trimming and figuring out where they went.Then I bring the gussets home. They are 42" tall by 20" wide. I don't know how thick right now,but at least 1". I have to prep them for full penetration welds on both sides. I don't know why, the rest are fillet welds, but I do what it says on the blue prints.All welds will be AWS inspected and probably UT tested.More tomorrow.Thanks For looking.David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by chenryso are they beefing up the base of the tower so they can hang more stuff on it?
Reply:Good work..Will the drawing hurt anything?Will they need gussets?Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:The gussets are HUGE. More pics tomorrow, I will keep this thread for the whole job. I think I will trim the bottoms of the gussets to reasonably fit the crocked plates. Gonna ask the big cheese first.The first one I noticed was past level when I had made about 10 passes with the 1/8" 7018, so I borrowed an "up and down" tool or sledge hammer. I beat the crap out of it and it wouldn't budge. Not even a little. I can cut them off and do over if the big cheese says so. I even had them chisel more concrete off for the rest. All 3 were started resting on the concrete on the outside edge.The gussets will join the tower to the base plate and the plate I welded on to that. The base ring of the tower can tear off under heavy wind and ice. That is all up to the engineers. I just try to follow the prints.2" grade 150 anchor bolts go through the gussets and the plates I welded on. About 6 or 7 feet into the concrete they are going to pour.David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:If you had a "cheater" on a crescent wrench opened to accomodate the ear, somebody could hold pressure as you weldedEsab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Have you tried using 7024 for your flat welds. This way you can get away with less passes and less heat to the tabs. Should help with the curl.Just my 2 cents. Looks like a fun job...... With 4-8 inches of snow should make it even more fun.....
Reply:David since they are going between those two studs ( I suppose all are ) Two pieces of pipe that fit snug on the studs with a cross brace between them so you could tack a gusset while welding, providing you can get two of those nuts to put on the studs.... Just a thought.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Nice work Dave, is the boy gonna get out there at all?
Reply:Nice work.Any problem welding on top of the cement or was it chiseled away, couldn`t tell in the pics.I`ll bet they complain about the pulling up of the lugs...Mike
Reply:Burnit, Kid is at schoolThe concrete was cleared out underneath.So far there are only 2 that are off. If they complain, out comes the cut off wheels or arc air.This is why I wanted a double V, but........The snow plow just went by my house I have to plow a couple of driveways before I get to the job. Good thing I got up early!David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Well, get going!
Reply:nice, look forward to seeing the progress.ive made quite a few of those towers
Reply:heat them with a huge rosebud and bend them back down with the gravity accelerator so your probably getting @ 1" of pull at the end of the gusset ?insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:You know Donald,I think that you might have an easier time of it with a plug in plasma, if you have to cut something: less heat, less noise and cleaner cuts. If you got one, I'd use it.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I can see the proximety to the cement being a problem using plasma or heat.Let us know what happened....Mike
Reply:Interesting job.But if the job specs called for low-hydrogen filler, why did you run 6011? That filler is NOT a low-hydrogen one! Although I see lots of reference to running a 6011 root-pass in some of the Lincoln literature and then running all the rest of the fill as 7018, 6011 is still not a low-hydrogen filler and does not seem all that good of a choice for a single-sided groove weld where you are not able to grind/gouge out the 6011 root and then refill with the 7018 from the back side.And with it being so cold out, how did you run the required preheat levels into the new tabs AND the existing base steel? AWS D1.1 says preheat was pretty much required and could be a minimum of 50F if the steel was some of the 'lower' grade structural stuff and low-hydrogen SMAW was used. If the steel is the 'higher' grade structural stuff, then the required minimum preheat could have been 150F, unless the steel was ASTM A710 Grade A (all classes) or ASTM A913 Grades 50, 60, or 65 in which case the required preheat was a minimum of 32F when low-hydrogen SMAW filler of H8 or better is used except if the original metal temperature was below 32F then a minimum preheat and maintained temperature of 70F is required.One way or another, at an ambient starting temperature of 19F then some sort of preheat and minimum interpass temperature was required.And with the existing steel smack up against the existing concrete and with all the mass of the existing steel, how did you get that much preheat in there?And yes, unless the engineers decide to go with a fiddly offset-beveled washer/shim arrangement, those non-level new tabs will most likely have to be redone. Otherwise those anchor bolts are going to get bent and stressed all to hell when the nuts are put on and tightened. Hmmmm, unless they decide to go and tilt the anchor bolts when they embed them in the concrete.And for working on 1-1/4 plate, I would have thought you'd use a bigger electrode than 1/8! More like 1/4 inch electrodes (Lincoln Jetweld LH-70 E7018H4R perhaps?). The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:David,Wouldn't the gussets have been of some use in holding the plates in position? I'm not sure I understand all the issues...Maybe you could have attached the gussets to the plates in the shop ( warm there ) then, taken it all out to the site.OR... Is there some reason you couldn't do that?The best things in life all come on a stick!
Reply:Originally Posted by chenryheat them with a huge rosebud and bend them back down with the gravity accelerator so your probably getting @ 1" of pull at the end of the gusset ?
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldYou know Donald,I think that you might have an easier time of it with a plug in plasma, if you have to cut something: less heat, less noise and cleaner cuts. If you got one, I'd use it.
Reply:David,So sorry, I had a friend named Donald on my mind that I used to work with when I was writing. So much for proof reading I guess.Maybe you write like a Donald? Or maybe I was thinking of Mc Donald's? No excuse. A thousand apopologies, if I do it again, well please don't ban me. I have been called Mike a million times in my life.Regrets,Mike.... I mean um.. Mark.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Aye, UT or X-ray can't tell if the steel filler was from 6011 or 7018, barring porosity or such ...but the steel itself may be able to, down the road, especially if the steel in question is sensitive enough to hydrogen (like 'difficult to weld steels' or higher-strength/higher-carbon steels) to have required or recommended the low-hydrogen filler in the first place.Again, interesting project.And a real-world example of how much distortion or bend one-sided welding can produce. The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:David,Another thought...Why don't you weld the gussets first and notch them in the corner to leave room to weld under it down to the ears. Or alternatively, weld the gussets to the plate first. Then weld the gussets to the tower then the plate ears to the tower? Maybe its a procedure thing?Scratch the second part rabidfish beat me to it.Last edited by lugweld; 12-17-2008 at 08:11 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:OK, this is how I started my day. (pic # 1) the biggest problem I had welding these two on was water running down the tower. I had to keep "chasing" it away with the torch. the snow was melting from above. Water in weld = hydrogen. Can't have that.I did something wrong with the pics. #2 is the rod oven on the truck. Doing this job right!#4 shows the anchor bolts so they can pour the concrete. I will be adding the gussets soon, but the concrete is being poured in a couple days.#5 shows the one I did yesterday and two I did today. Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 12-17-2008 at 08:35 PM.Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.David,What's in the yellow box?Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Looks like a rod oven to meVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Moonrise this one is for you I have all 9 on, it was dark and everybody left while I was still welding, so I packed up and went home too. I have a few more beads to be run on the last 2 but they can pour concrete any time.Pics of the gussets on Friday.The company I work for sent me 100 lbs of 5/32 Lincoln 7018 MR I will be using all of it. Today used about 30 lbs of rod. Could have done more if it wasn't for the snow.DavidLast edited by David R; 12-17-2008 at 08:40 PM.Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:me thinks big cheese cut some slack for the ones that are drawn ?welding in the cold and snow sucks. they would not bring it to your shop insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Nice DavidHeres a pic from the top of one from when I was a tower-hand. So now we have pics from bottom to topI always wondered about how they welded those things at the bottom. Very cool indeed David. Those are under all kinds of stresses I bet at the bottom. It makes sense how you weld them up. weld it like you own it
Reply:No snow here. Just sweat. It was 81 here today. Record high.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Wow... Once the rod and nut are in place, there's not alot of room for a meaningful gusset anyways.I hate to watch a guy working that hard! I'd have to stop what I was doin' and lend a hand!The best things in life all come on a stick!
Reply:Originally Posted by RabidfishWow... Once the rod and nut are in place, there's not alot of room for a meaningful gusset anyways.I hate to watch a guy working that hard! I'd have to stop what I was doin' and lend a hand!
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldDavid,What's in the yellow box?
Reply:David stand over (looking down) one of the last two and get a shot of how long the studs are and where they come from, if you don't mind. And your doing an awesome job!! Keep warm and wear a safety helmet just in case.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:heres a bottom section of a tower ive just finished at work if anyone's interested,
Reply:a bit surprised to see no nut on the bottom under the flange to keep the bolt from cocking when the mud hits the hole-- but a it looks like maybe the rebar is dense enough to be bracing the bolt..?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeada bit surprised to see no nut on the bottom under the flange to keep the bolt from cocking when the mud hits the hole-- but a it looks like maybe the rebar is dense enough to be bracing the bolt..?
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldNo snow here. Just sweat. It was 81 here today. Record high.
Reply:David R,After nine years the neighbor lady still calls you Don huh? I guess we could only speculate on that. But about the tower...The pictures in post 25 really put things in perspective; the ears and gussets are much larger than they first seemed.I wonder if the ears should be restrained while welding, rather than straightening the "pull" afterwardsNew anchor bolts not galvanized??Good LuckHey... Has anyone else noticed mobile phone reception problems lately? Mine buzzes like a DeWalt grinder!
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepDavid R,After nine years the neighbor lady still calls you Don huh? I guess we could only speculate on that. But about the tower...The pictures in post 25 really put things in perspective; the ears and gussets are much larger than they first seemed.I wonder if the ears should be restrained while welding, rather than straightening the "pull" afterwardsNew anchor bolts not galvanized??Good LuckHey... Has anyone else noticed mobile phone reception problems lately? Mine buzzes like a DeWalt grinder!
Reply:Ahhh, since you usually describe a lot of the steps you do with the job and didn't mention trying to preheat a tower, I was wondering if you somehow missed that step in the doing.Glad it was just a missed in the telling. Yup, nothing like blasting 500K BTU at something to heat it up. Don't light the wisk brush. It will burn rather rapidly if 500K BTU is near it. And a little helpful hint. No matter how cold you or your toes get, don't use the 500K BTU warming device on yourself. Hmmm, and I'm with denrep and lugweld in wondering why the new anchor bolts/threaded-rod aren't galvanized. And no OSHA rebar mushroom caps there on the rebar or the ends of the threaded rod? Although OSHA is now saying that mushroom caps are inadequate for impalement protection and are for scratch/scrape protection only and protruding impalement hazards must be protected with covers or troughs. The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:i only have two questionswhat happens if the 75 tons pulls the bolt out ?( i am bad at math also)insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:The bolts and anything else needed will have 2 coats of brush applied galvanized supplied by the company I am working for. It works well. I don't know what happens if the bolts pull out, but they usually drill the concrete and "Glue" them in with a specified hilti glue and it does work, I have seen them test the bolts.I have some serious calculating to do tonight to figure out how long its going to take to install the 9 gussets.Here are some facts. Gussets are not prepped. Vertical up is 42" The need to be ground back from 1 1/4" to 5/8" with a 1/2" fillet on each side.Some gussets can only be welded from one side because they butt up against other parts of structure. So they will need a 1" fillet.Horizontal is 14" and needs to be ground to a point for a full Penn weld. Probably need to be back gouged. Welds are 5/8" on each side Again 1 1/4" gusset.There are 9 of em, how long do you think that will take?Just so you know, I can't lift one alone.Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:not an engineer , even though I play one during the day. seems like a huge amount of overkillin those gussets.i estimate you will have 6 hours of weld per gusset if stick welding@ 3 if you can FCAWinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:The pipe is already welded to the gusset.The hole in the pipe matches the hole in the piece I welded on.Last edited by David R; 12-18-2008 at 08:44 PM.Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Ka-Ching Ka-Ching Ka-ching Ka-Ching $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$42 inches vertical up. hmmm. Mulitiple passes. How many? 20?A day per? A day.5?Break out the wire feeder. Dual shield?Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:chenry, that is what I was thinking, about one or so per 10 hour day including prep of the gusset and tower. I got some travel time in there too.I have one 25 lb roll of NR232 or 233. Wont' get me far.....I don't think its over kill. Big bolts, 150 feet of tower with lots O stuff on top.getting out the bible and see how many inches per minute and how many passes.DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I see it as backup Keep up the good work. I think you landed an excellent job! weld it like you own it
Reply:Wow david, Great job!Never knew whats involved with that. Thanks for sharing! |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:13:23