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I have a Miller 250MP that is consistently losing its arc. I have ruled everything out that it could be except for the machine itself. I called a local Miller repair shop and they want 2 hours labor ($75 hr) minimum repair charge. I don't mind paying for whatever work they do but that seemed odd that they would automatically charge $150 right off the top. This is the first time in 10 years I have needed to bring it in. Is this the going rate?MillerMatic 212, Lincoln Precision TIG 225, Hypertherm 45XP
Reply:A two hr minimum means that if it takes ten minutes it's still $150.00. Many shops and independent tradesmen have minimums. For yrs we charged a four minimum for field welding. Most jobs go over the minimum, but I had several days where I got the minimum as many as five times. Great working half a day and getting paid for two days!Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money. -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:think i would call around. in my area all the major repairs are sent to a service center anyways... so you take it to the lws, then they take it to the repair center.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Call Miller and have them help you diagnose the problem. Then you can buy the parts from the repair shop and fix it yourself."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Lets look what would go on at a welder service shop for a typical repair.1. Receive machine from freight co. or customer, write work order, sign off freight paperwork, unload and move into storage area (forklift or pallet jack)2. When ready, move machine into shop or from storage area to service area. (forklift or pallet jack)3. Set machine on bench or stand (OH crane, hoist)4. External inspection, hook up power, remove outer covers, clean inside for internal inspection.5. No apparent (visible) problems found, research service manual and run tests on welder.6. No problems found, conclusion problem was with customers electrical supply.7. Reassemble machine, disconnect from power.8. Lower back to floor or skid and move to storage area.9. Call customer, let him know result.10. Arrange payment by customer, 11. Load machine for freight co. or customerSo even if there is no actual problem with the machine, they would have to go through all this work and procedure to process a customer repair request. Add to that the overhead for the shop, utilities, advertising, insurance etc.I think two hours shop rate minimum for a welding machine repair even if nothing turns out to be wrong is a reasonable charge. Just because there is no problem, doesn't mean they didn't do a fair bit of work for their money."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:X2 on caliing miller they have been very good at helping me in the past. 2 hr min sounds high for something like this. Could see a hour min a good tech would listen to customer and than start diagnoses from there or probably know where to start with common probs on particular machine.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Norite pretty much summed it up..... but the part that sucks is after the 3rd or 4th time @ 2 hr min., they check it out and find that oh gee we missed this and they still stick it to you for another inspection plus the repairs. that's not taking into account all the time and money spent on your end trying to make sure it's not something in your shop power causing the problem.Last edited by jbmprods; 07-11-2011 at 10:42 PM.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteLets look what would go on at a welder service shop for a typical repair.1. Receive machine from freight co. or customer, write work order, sign off freight paperwork, unload and move into storage area (forklift or pallet jack)2. When ready, move machine into shop or from storage area to service area. (forklift or pallet jack)3. Set machine on bench or stand (OH crane, hoist)4. External inspection, hook up power, remove outer covers, clean inside for internal inspection.5. No apparent (visible) problems found, research service manual and run tests on welder.6. No problems found, conclusion problem was with customers electrical supply.7. Reassemble machine, disconnect from power.8. Lower back to floor or skid and move to storage area.9. Call customer, let him know result.10. Arrange payment by customer, 11. Load machine for freight co. or customer.
Reply:I have worked on a similar basis for most of my life. Flat rate. My labor rate is 99 dollars an hour for automotive troubleshooting and diagnostic work. Unless it is something really odd like the vehicle has already been to a bunch of other shops and nobody else can figure it out or a customer has already disassembled or screwed around with something he/she shouldnt have and I have to fix it. Then it may be more. But generally, if I dont fix anything, or if it is clear there really is nothing wrong I do not charge. You would be surprised how often a customer will bring me a vehicle that there really is nothing wrong with. Sometimes literally a customer just isnt going to be satisfied until you charge them for something. So I'll charge a half hour, do a thorough inspection, usually print out a list of completed monitors and stuff with all the ones that have passed highlighted in green. If I find a problem and the customer doesn't want to fix it, however, It's one hour. I think two hours off the top is a little excessive.
Reply:2hrs is over the top in my opinion as a minimum for "in shop" labor. for that kind of work. There are times when that kind of minimum and more are perfectly reasonable but that's not one of them.Ever have a customer (fab shop) come in with a drawing for some gizmo that he's not sure how he wants it built or if it's even going to work? easy to tie up an hour or more fooling with them then time ordering material, the whole unloading, storing bit and then maybe an hour to actually build it? That's where a heavy minimum charge is warranted in my opinion.On outside jobs we have a three hour minimum that's "door to door" with a .75 cents per mile (each way) trip charge. Most customers don't even ask as their concern is getting whatever it is fixed and back in service. Been a lot of 30-60 minute jobs billed out at well over $300.Then we have "filler" jobs... usually some piece of farm equip that the guy has dropped off and said "fix it when you get to it". We set those aside and when a guy is out of a job for a few hours those jobs get done. No minimum on those and I've written several bills for 50-60 bucks on that kind of stuff.Repaired a crack on a small FEL gusset last week for a farmer that's been a good customer for 20yrs or more. Took 15 minutes, charged him nothing and did it while he waited.But I make the rules and the rules are subject to change depending on the job and the customer. I don't mind demanding customers so long as they don't mind paying.Quality and speed = be prepared to payQuality and price = be prepared to waitSpeed and cheap = go away
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmAnd all that time they are on the clock anyway. So what's with the two hour min? When you're charging by the hour, I don't see any reason for a minimum during regular business hours.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardWhen you invest all it takes to run a small business then you'll understand. Until then you'll go on thinking all these nasty business people are out to screw you. You'll keep voting in more tax and regulations and then one day you'll find you're all alone. The government telling you you have no need for that welder as you are a $hit scooper and $hit scooppers don't need welders.
Reply:Sorry Boostnjdm. I might be off my rocker a bit.
Reply:I'd ask on the Miller forums. They are very helpful folks.A new 252 is about two grand online so I'd want to spend as little as practical finding out how much a repair would cost vs. sinking the better part of a new machine into an old one.150 bucks in the hole out of the gate for a machine which might not be worth repairing is something I'd try to avoid.I agree with the minimum labor charge, but I agree even more with learning to fix as much of what you own as possible.
Reply:The shop that I've used charges time + parts, that's it. Takes 5 minutes total to load, unload, and move the welder to where they are working on it or storing it. Last time I took a welder in, the Miller 1E I've got, it was aa $93 charge.... 3 parts plus time testing and repairing. The flat $150 sounds high to me just to look at it if it turns out to be something simple.HH 187Miller Bluestar1EAHP AlphaTig 200X
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardSorry Boostnjdm. I might be off my rocker a bit.
Reply:Originally Posted by gwileyMinimum rates aren't double dipping. There is a very real cost to switching between projects and tasks that has to be paid for somehow. It is often not "billable", but there is overhead involved in keeping folks moving. businesses are in business to make money - not give away unearned paychecks or do charity work (although both happen, they are not the reason you open the doors every morning typically)..
Reply:Call Miller. After my little problem with my Hobart, start at the factory support.
Reply:Originally Posted by gwileyMinimum rates aren't double dipping.
Reply:i could see a 1hr minimum, but 2 hr minimum is too much... I was thinking 1 hr minimum was pretty much job shop standard anyways... not to mention they probably charge a 100% markup on parts..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by WrenchtamerI have worked on a similar basis for most of my life. Flat rate. My labor rate is 99 dollars an hour for automotive troubleshooting and diagnostic work. Unless it is something really odd like the vehicle has already been to a bunch of other shops and nobody else can figure it out or a customer has already disassembled or screwed around with something he/she shouldnt have and I have to fix it. Then it may be more. But generally, if I dont fix anything, or if it is clear there really is nothing wrong I do not charge. You would be surprised how often a customer will bring me a vehicle that there really is nothing wrong with. Sometimes literally a customer just isnt going to be satisfied until you charge them for something. So I'll charge a half hour, do a thorough inspection, usually print out a list of completed monitors and stuff with all the ones that have passed highlighted in green. If I find a problem and the customer doesn't want to fix it, however, It's one hour. I think two hours off the top is a little excessive.
Reply:Thanks for all the feedback.I have done some testing on my own and removed the cover from the machine. The "guts" of the machine are very easily accessible and literally within 5 minutes both side covers can be removed. It also has an internal test port that can be accessed very easily. A flat no exception 2 hr minimum seems unfair when realistically they could possibly diagnose this machine in less than 30 minutes. Also, with the age of this machine it is very likely that it wont be feasible to repair it so I will likely buy another.I still have not diagnosed the problem and because of feedback here I will call Miller and see what suggest.I am currently looking at other machines including the MillerMatic 212. I have a Spoolmatic 30A that I think will work on that machine. One thing I will miss is the Dual Schedule switch on the 250MP gun. Dont know if that is compatible with other machines. I have a couple of LWS that sell Miller but only the one that can provide repair service on site (the one I have been referring too).ThanksMillerMatic 212, Lincoln Precision TIG 225, Hypertherm 45XP
Reply:Originally Posted by kaferhaus2hrs is over the top in my opinion as a minimum for "in shop" labor. for that kind of work. There are times when that kind of minimum and more are perfectly reasonable but that's not one of them.Ever have a customer (fab shop) come in with a drawing for some gizmo that he's not sure how he wants it built or if it's even going to work? easy to tie up an hour or more fooling with them then time ordering material, the whole unloading, storing bit and then maybe an hour to actually build it? That's where a heavy minimum charge is warranted in my opinion.On outside jobs we have a three hour minimum that's "door to door" with a .75 cents per mile (each way) trip charge. Most customers don't even ask as their concern is getting whatever it is fixed and back in service. Been a lot of 30-60 minute jobs billed out at well over $300.Then we have "filler" jobs... usually some piece of farm equip that the guy has dropped off and said "fix it when you get to it". We set those aside and when a guy is out of a job for a few hours those jobs get done. No minimum on those and I've written several bills for 50-60 bucks on that kind of stuff.Repaired a crack on a small FEL gusset last week for a farmer that's been a good customer for 20yrs or more. Took 15 minutes, charged him nothing and did it while he waited.But I make the rules and the rules are subject to change depending on the job and the customer. I don't mind demanding customers so long as they don't mind paying.Quality and speed = be prepared to payQuality and price = be prepared to waitSpeed and cheap = go away
Reply:Well a well run repair facility will charge $100 to $150 to diagnose, then apply that to the repair if you approve it. If you blow them off, at least they got the diagnosis amount. I would call them up and ask if they apply the diagnosis to the repair. I would be shocked if they don't. Get a new repair guy if they don't.Anyway, $150 is perfectly fair IMO.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:12:39