Blue, Red or Yellow?

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Hello,I'm an O/A hobbyist welder, and I would like to add stick and TIG capabilities with an inverter box. It's easy to find information on Miller and Lincoln, but not as much is available on ESAB.  I am not knowledgeable enough to compare what I think are the three inverters from each of these manufacturers.  It appears as though it's the Miller Dynasty 200 DX, the Lincoln Invertec V205-T, and the ESAB Caddy TIG 2200i.  I would like stick and TIG in one package.  AC/DC seems to be the way to go.  I have both 110 and 220 power available.  My target is at or below 5k for the whole setup.  I'd rather slightly over-buy, than under-buy.  I realize anything I buy in this range is better than what I actually need.  I could use some advice or opinions, on the differences and perhaps even on the options that are most worthwhile.  If more information is needed, please let me know.  Thank you!Last edited by backbeat; 05-24-2010 at 05:45 PM.Reason: spelling
Reply:Backbeat, welcome to the forum, might I suggest using the search function just below the "your profile button" if you put in esab caddy tig as a search parameter it'll show you all the threads (and there are a ton) comparing esab to lincoln to miller. now that thats out of the way, best of luck on finding the right one."...My pappy was a pistol I'm a son of a gun...""...God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy..."
Reply:Thanks, Crawford.  While I'm new to this forum, I'm certainly not new to searching in other forums on a whole range of hobbies, etc..  I looked around here and on three other welding forums, and I just didn't find much of anything. Thanks,backbeat
Reply:What about Thermal Arc the purple/burgandy one?  They have the Arc Master 185 also known as the TA 185.  This unit is comparable the others and comes in at $2200 .  Use the search function like stated before and you may want to look up Pro Wave 185 which was the previous version.
Reply:Jay O, thanks.  I'll take a look per your suggestion.  I did as I stated, search on this site and others.  If you do a search on "ESAB Caddy TIG", you will only see my thread.  ESAB TIG yields more results, but mostly transformer machines from what I saw.  Half of the people that get on forums, post answers.  The other half post questions.  Certainly some do both.  For every question that's seemingly been answered before, there are twenty people that still want to give their advice and opinions.  Since I already called an ESAB reseller with some basic questions, and they couldn't answer any, this forum seems to be a good place to get some advice.  At the very least, I would hope that someone can tell me if the models are even comparable.  Again, Jay O; thanks.  I'll take a look!backbeatLast edited by backbeat; 05-24-2010 at 11:57 PM.Reason: sp
Reply:Awesome, somebody with a realistic budget.I haven't used any of those so I can't give ya any specific advice, though I would lean towards the blue one myself.  My advice on the ESAB is that if the re-seller couldn't answer your questions, I'd avoid doing any business with him, ESAB, or both.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Thanks for your comments, Boostinjdm.  I try to be realistic...I hear you on the ESAB comments.  I'll try another reseller, first.  To clarify for others, I'm comfortable with each of the three manufacturers. It's not really a Chevy vs. Ford vs. ? question for me, as much as it is an attempt to compare their three offerings for the same 'class' of machine.  Thanks.
Reply:Hey backbeat I would lean with the ones your local supplier carries just for ease of repair or parts if ever needed.I myself am true blue right now even though many yrs ago{1978} I  attended Lincoln's & Tulsa Pipe school,both having alot of Lincoln's stuff.I started w/Lincoln but made the switch and nevered looked back.Trailblazer 275 {2}Dynasty 200 DXMaxstar 200Millermatic PassportThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 82
Reply:pssst, how about adding to the choices?  HTP seems to have a decent rep as far as I can tell.  Their comparable offering seems to have the usual capabilities and bells-n-whistles.  Not as small and light as the Lincoln 205 though (68 lbs vs 38 lbs) and 240V only not 120/240 as the Lincoln 205T has.http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.htmlAlso available via Ebay or their 'selling' store.  http://www.usaweld.com/Invertig-201-Welders-s/27.htmI'd love to have any of them.  re: the ESAB reseller.   ESAB has TONS of info on their website.  Resellers for most anything seem to vary between salesmen without a clue to those who have the tech answers or product knowledge to those with actual experience.  Maybe just call or contact ESAB if you have tech questions.ThermalArc also seems to have a good rep, but the TA185 is one step 'down' in output from the 200/201/205 'class' of machines.  That may matter to you, or it may not.  That nominal 15 amps can be the difference between only 1/8 inch aluminum welding versus 3/16-1/4 inch aluminum welding though.  IIRC someone here has a TA185 and really couldn't do 1/4 inch aluminum with the machine while 1/8 was no problem.  That could also have been a function of a combination of power and duty-cycle.And +1 on having a realistic budget.  The 200-class inverters aren't cheap.    Well, maybe they are just a -bit- less expensive than say a 500-amp diesel engine drive.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:For me, it was between the Dynasty 200, Thermal Arc 185, Lincoln Invertec 205 and HTP Invertig 201.   The TA 185 won for me on price, features and reviews by forum members.  I got it in 2006 and am quite happy with it.   I inquired yesterday about pricing on a new TA 300 and a Dynasty 350 and, even though I am a great fan of the Blue machines, if I had the money, the TA would win over the Dynasty again for me.  The 300-class machines are quite alot more expensive than the 200-class machines!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:IW - I hear your point about repairs and parts. Thanks.I'm going to make this a little easier, and just eliminate Lincoln as I was leaning towards Miller for a MIG machine, before I switched gears.  MoonRise - thanks for the suggestions and the links. You're right about their being a 'lot' of information on ESAB's site, but my challenge is, I don't understand enough about some of the information, to make an informed decision.  As an example: Electrode preheating?  It sounds like it makes sense, but does Miller accomplish this using another term?  Micro pulse vs. Miller's ?  I am waiting for a return call from ESAB, to go over some details.  Thanks on the 'realistic budget'.
Reply:Thanks, DesertRider33.  If you put price aside, how did the Dynasty 200 compare to the Thermal Arc?
Reply:One thing is VERY clear for me....I have made THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars with 2 different Miller Dynasty 200dx's on 120v.Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:The Dynasty 200DX at that time (2005/6) didn't have anything more going for it than the TA185, besides being able to run on 110 volts.  That wasn't important to me, as I have 220v power and had no intention of using the machine for mobile work, so the much lower price of the TA won for me.  Now that I'm using the TA for both mobile and shop work, it would be nice to have the 110v power option of the Dynasty, but not important enough to me to want to replace the TA with a new Dynasty 200, considering how much money they are.   If I were to get a Dynasty 200, I would probly save some money and get the SD model.  Since I never use the pulse or slope features of my TA now, no reason to pay for them on a new DX.  The SD is still quite a bit more money than the TA though.The Dynasty 200DX in more recent years, I believe 2009 and up, has extra wave forms and better HF starting than the older Dynastys, so it probly has that much more going for it than the TA185 does now, if those features are important to you.As far as welding with them, I like the soft arc of the TA185.  The Dynasty 300DX's and older 350's I have welded with had a stiff arc that I didn't like quite as much as my TA.  I also like the easy starting of the TA.  With the different wave forms of the newer Dynastys, the arc characteristics are more adjustable, so that would be a good thing, though I have never welded with the multi-wave-form Dynastys to say for sure.So far as stick welding with the TA, it's a great tig machine but I dont like it on stick at all.  I have never tried a Dynasty on stick to compare but I have heard they are very good.  I didnt buy my TA with any intention of stick welding with it though, so it's stick performance doesn't bother me at all.  I have enough other good stick machines to not need that feature on a TA or Dynasty.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DesertRider33, thanks for your evaluation comments.  Very helpful!  The Miller 110/220 capability might make a difference to me, vs. the 220 only capability of the ESAB.  The welder would mainly be in my garage, but options are always nice if they're not prohibitively expensive or overly complex.  You raise a good point about the slope and pulse capabilities.  For about 1k more, perhaps it's not the best use of money to have the extra features.  Good news on the stick welding capability.  Thanks again for your insight and comments!
Reply:Originally Posted by backbeatYou raise a good point about the slope and pulse capabilities.  For about 1k more, perhaps it's not the best use of money to have the extra features.
Reply:Bootsinjdm - Thanks.  I hear your point and it makes good sense.  Fortunately or unfortunately for me, I almost always overbuy.  That usually leaves me with 'options' that I don't need and will never use.  So...if I'm betting on history, the smarter bet is to get less; not more. That said, from what I've read, I see some value in the slope and pulse capabilities; at the very least, as an opportunity to learn more.   Thanks again.
Reply:I think that the TA 185 is actually a good stick welder.  I originally got it for tig but when going to school I also wanted to be able to practice stick at home and that why I chose the TA 185. The machine seems to be picky about rod, it seems to only like the good stuff such as Atomic Arc or Excaliber 7018.  On 6010 not as picky will work with any rod.  With 6010 1/8" I've been able to run it as low as 60 amps and not have it stick and have ran some 3/16" 6010 without a problem. The one weakness the TA 185 has is running 6010 downhill with anything bigger then 1/8" rod, it doesn't do it well.  Like I said with 7018 the machine likes the good stuff and has a crisp arc which is just a little different from a transformer machine.  At work I get to use various machines such as big Miller 500, Miller 300d, old SAE-350 and an SA-200 and when I use my little TA 185 for stick I'm not missing a thing.
Reply:Thanks, Jay O.  It's obvious that all these machines behave a little differently, so thanks for the details on the TA 185.
Reply:I was comparing my TA to my XMT, Dialarc and PowCon, which are excellent stick machines.  I would put my TA on the level of my Bobcat for running 7018.  It gets the job done but it's far from excellent.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:It would be easy to buy the Dynasty 200 DX, but I'm still leaning towards the ESAB Caddy TIG 2200i.  Besides the local support issues and price, does anyone have direct experience or second-hand knowledge on the ESAB TIG, that could give it a thumbs up or thumbs down and some comments?  Thanks.backbeat
Reply:With so little info out there about them, it makes you wonder if they ever even sold any.BTW ....doesn't TA have a 200 now?Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:TA has had a 200 for quite some time.  It's priced about $500 higher than the 185.  The difference between the 185 and the 200 is the 200 has 15 amps higher output and can run on 3-phase power.  Everything else is the same between the two.  The 185 is single-phase only.  Neither of them run on 110v power.  The extra 15 amps isn't worth $500 (to me anyways), so unless I absolutely needed to run 3-phase for some reason, there isn't much reason to buy the 200 over the 185.  Last edited by DesertRider33; 05-28-2010 at 03:59 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by FusionKingWith so little info out there about them, it makes you wonder if they ever even sold any.BTW ....doesn't TA have a 200 now?
Reply:Originally Posted by backbeatI agree FusionKing. It doesn't appear that they've sold any in the states.  Though I have seen a bunch of posts on their MIG machines.The Caddytig is a very new product that ESAB released only recently along with their caddimig line. From what I see, it is a very nice machine! However, comparing to the other brands it is very difficult to make an educated decision, obviously. I myself am stuck with a customer placing his whole faith in me delivering him a machine that has the most bang for the buck and 10 years of welding supply experiance still see 6 eggs in one, half dozen in the other. ESAB and Thermal Arc both are the underdogs in the US. Miller is the 800lb gorilla... ESAB is the world leader in filler metals though and the caddy tig is part of their new lineup that is made in switzerland and if you ask any of the manufacturer reps from ESAB they are very happy with the change from US made to swiss made. What I believe you will find is that the caddy tig is going to deliver an arc performance that surpasses the miller dynasty due to the micropulse technology that I little understand. Does anyone know if the dynasty or lincoln has AC pulse? Because in my opinion reguardless of price THAT is what you want. I just talked to Paul Stone with ESAB and micro pulse represents a pulse feature which for the first 5 seconds you can adjust the pulse within thousandths of a second.