Weld Penetration Profiles Using 4 Different Gases

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Hope this comes through ok. Attached are 4 weld samples that were welded with the following gases, they are as follows, from left to right. C10, which is 90% argon/10% Co2. Moongon (Praxair's Stargon) which is 90% argon, 8% Co2, and 2% Oxygen. C25, 75% Argon/25% Co2, and lastly M5, or O-5 which is 95% Argon/5% Oxygen. All material is 1/4" mild steel. The C10 gave the best penetration, with the tri-mix and C25 doing well also. The Argon Oxygen mixture was the worst. This isn't to say that the Argon Oxy mix should never be used, it definitely has it's place, just not for thick steel, this gas mix was developed for thin materials, for the flat or horizontal position, it will allow for increased travel speed, low spatter. I really hope this picture comes through and everyone can see the penetration profile, thanks to wallythacker for the link on how to resize. How can I resize so they show up? My first post was too large to send, now this one is too small ?? I understand the limit is 150 kb, but how can I make it bigger and still post? Attached ImagesLast edited by ss42768; 01-15-2007 at 09:52 PM.
Reply:nice try...way too small to make an evaluation..sorry.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Plz Make It Bigger I Cant See ItKISS...KEEP IT SAFE STUPID
Reply:Help!! How can I resize??
Reply:Originally Posted by ss42768Help!! How can I resize??
Reply:To see the weld profiles would be nice, but how about posting the weld profile measurements in a table, then we'd know what each gas did in actual physical terms.
Reply:I just take the fullsize images and sticke them on Photobucket.  Then, I copy the Img link and post it along with the post.
Reply:This is very interesting as I got into it elsewhere on gas uses with a mig welders. I am no pro but know somethings and want to learn more. I was told in recent research that argon gases with a mig welder were not recomended on mild steel. The penetration is good but the weld is to narrow. The argon mixes were designed for some stainless welding and specail robotic uses. CO2 and C25 were the two best gases for welding mild steel. CO2 being the best penetration. Looking forward to seeing a bigger picture and learning more on this topic.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Looking forward to seeing a bigger picture and learning more on this topic.
Reply:Not sure what to think after reading some info from your site sandy. A couple of high pressure welders I know as well as a whole class being tested for certification failed. They were using a mig welder, T91 flux core wire and CO2 shielding gas. The gas bottle was mark wrong and they found out later that it was a mix containing Helium.  after allot of playing around and xrays, Helium is not to be used when mig welding high pressure. This is how I was told and understand it.I got into big discussion on sheilding gas and mig welders on another site. Some of the info on the web site you posted supports his argument but when I talked to top people in the field about this, they said Argon and Oxygen mixes were not recommended for mild carbon steel. Other welders supported this statment. When I started having problems with my mig welder and found this forum, I was happy to be able to get help but it also has been a confusing learning curve. I am not a expert and find I have more and more question all the time now. I wish all the dealers were total up to speed on this stuff as mine doesn't seem to be. Keeping an eye on this post. Want to learn more and throw in my 1.5 cent worth. not up a 2 cents yet.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:jamlit ARGON/OXY is a common mix for welding carbon steel i got my spray transfer certs using 95/5 ARGON/OXY as the sheild gas.ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Jam, the world is not flat...take heart. You misunderstood some it sounds like. Esab is even saying the same things we were. Slick Willy is saying it is imposible to achieve porosity free welds with Co2 or a Co2 mix. Esab and everyone else is saying it is possible and even easier than with a 98/2oxy mix. It is possible and doable every day of the week. All these x-rays that have been taken over the years prove that beyond any arguement. He is also saying that 98/2 oxy should be used as a short circuit gas. It is a spray transfer gas. That is what it was designed as anyway. It will work very well in that manner. It is more suceptable to porosity if the wire doesn't have good deoxidizers or enough heat. Premium wire and high heat assures sound welds. Now, spray transfer voltage levels do not allow sheet metal welding. It would be an excercise in making holes. Way too hot.  But, Willy says it is the way to go.  Now, if you really want to stir the pot, take a look here. www.weldreality.com/
Reply:I got into big discussion on sheilding gas and mig welders on another site. Some of the info on the web site you posted supports his argument but when I talked to top people in the field about this, they said Argon and Oxygen mixes were not recommended for mild carbon steel. Other welders supported this statment. When I started having problems with my mig welder and found this forum, I was happy to be able to get help but it also has been a confusing learning curve. I am not a expert and find I have more and more question all the time now.
Reply:Thank god the world is round.  I will be the first to say I don't know something and will apoligize when I am wrong standing up, so saying this I thank all for being so helpful and understanding. I have welded for a number of years and stand behind my welds 100% but I have allot more to learn and I want to learn. Technology is changing thing and sometimes it is easyer to stay in your own backyard rather then see whats new. I also don't always explain myself properly and do have a limited vocabulary but know enough to stay in the game. Hope you guys can put up with me here as it seems this is a good place to learn some more. You are all cool dudes Where can I order one of thoughs tinfoil hats anyway. Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:we can all still learn stuff about weldingChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Sandy, you are right about the dealers but I wish my guy had a little more knowledge in him. He kind of left me out their on the 98/2 gas question with willy. They may not have the practical, but they should know the names of the products they sell when asked. Also lets change the names of the ARC (anode rectified cathode ) to something more fun. getting tired of hearing it from willy. I think he says it in his sleep.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Thanks chopper5Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:SS42768, there are many photo programs that you can use to resize your pics to post online, Photoshop has been mentioned.  I use, and recommend Irfanview (sometimes called Iview).  It's a free download from www.irfanview.com.  It's not a very big download, and this program works very well for picture resizing.  I use it for all my online pics, and even making my avatar pics for the forum.You won't want to resize your small pic back to a large size, you'll want to resize it from the original large size.  When a pic is blown up it usually loses a lot of detail.To resize a pic from Irfanview:Open the pic in IrfanviewAt the top click "Image"In the drop down menu click "Resize/Resample"Make sure "set new size" button is checked (has the dot in it)Set your new size for the picture in pixels (If you have "preserve aspect ratio"  checked, setting the width or height automatically sets the other, that way your pics don't end up stretched too wide or tall, looking like a fun-house mirror)Set "DPI" to 72 or 75 dots per inch, it's the best setting for viewing on a monitor screen, and keeps the file size smaller than finer settings.After resizing you can use Irfanview to "sharpen" your pics, as they usually lose a little sharpness when resizing/resampling.  As a matter of fact, Irfanview now has a setting in the resize screen that you can check, "Apply resharpen after resample", then it will do that automatically.After resizing, save your pic to whatever location you want in your computer (always save as a JPEG, it's a very universal format for pics, and every forum I've been on you can upload a JPEG file)640 x 480 is a very good size for posting online, doesn't oversize a monitor, and makes a manageable file size.These instructions work with Irfanview, but most other photo programs work similarly.This works well for this forum, but some forums don't allow posting pictures.  In that case you can upload your pics to a website, and then you can post a link to it.  I use photobucket.com, but any image hosting site is fine, there are a number of them.Hope this helps, if you have any questions about pic sizing with Irfanview feel free to ask.  I could even call you and talk you thru it, I have unlimited long distance on my home phone (or my wife would have me bankrupt with phone bills!)I've resized your pic to a larger size and included it as an attachment, it shows what I'm saying about losing the detail when resized to a larger size.Ed Attached ImagesLast edited by BigEd36; 01-21-2007 at 09:12 PM.When the  drops the  stops!Check out my website at:  Tombstone 180 ACHandler 120Millermatic 210Powermax 380Harris & Victor torchesSawzallChop Saw
Reply:Where can I order one of thoughs tinfoil hats anyway.
Reply:Hey big ed, Just take 1 pic of each and post em seperate, that way we get a bit more detail...  Still real fuzzy.  My camera came with a resizing utility.. works like a champ.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Originally Posted by DoolittleHey big ed, Just take 1 pic of each and post em seperate, that way we get a bit more detail...  Still real fuzzy.  My camera came with a resizing utility.. works like a champ.
Reply:I use Irfanview. It works like a champ. I like resizing them to 540x405. Seems to work on dial up a little better. For me anyway.FWIW, I was almost bitten by an ARC beam ray today. Gonna have to exterminate or something because I look silly in a tinfoil hat.