yet more full pen aluminium butts + more...

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tried to be a bit clever at first which is usually my undoing...cut the bend test coupon before getting the camera out but as shown this was an square prep, open root. as was said in one of the other similar threads, no root gap is preferable for Al (no prep below 1/8", 90 degree V or a U joint for thicker- more on this later)this is where it started going wrong- as the weld cap needs removing to bend test i thought i'd be clever and minimize the cap, as weldedcap removed, root is a bit on the big side (pic angle makes it look better than it is)
Reply:this is when my attempt at cleverness fell down. didn't have anything suitable to bend it over so i just grabbed a piece of plate with (sort of) rounded edges this end survived the sharp radiusthis one didn't! the 'oxide line' survived (although due to bad bend it wasn't really stressed). the oversized root didn't help (note the other end has less root)tried to show how the 'butt cheek' happens. started this weld with too few amps (set machine too low and kept pedal floored throughout). the gradually widening weld tells the storythe root side. with to few amps i had to wait for the puddle and the whole thing started to sink. result is a lack of fusion at root despite it meltingcross section of the 'butt crack'
Reply:enough messing about trying to produce weld defects...NO backing bar (that's cheating )weld cappornographic close up  weld root another pornographic close up
Reply:cross sectioncross section with cap removed for bendingroot shot of the bend coupon. cleaned with scotchbrite this timebent- still didn't manage to get to properly conform with dieanother view of the completed bendalmost forgot, NO acetone (or any solvents) was wasted on this demonstration.Last edited by hotrodder; 01-21-2008 at 08:21 AM.
Reply:B E A utiful!!!!!!Trailblazer 302 AirpakDynasty 200 DX  Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 CamoMiller Dailarc 250 OLD But great!!2 Miller 140's w/autoset NEW! Millwauke Cold cut sawsDewalt portabandJd2 notcherPipe beveling machine
Reply:cheers Flux!a bit more on Al welding technique / defects...Al welding.docdon't close the window after reading it, hit the back key. for some reason it doesn't open in a new window  NOTE! this was not copied from Gene Mathers excellent book 'The Welding of Aluminium and its alloys'. found it on some random website via google. honest.
Reply:Awsome demo hotrodder. if you grind down the root abit it may bend a little better. love the pornographic close ups.
Reply:Hotrodder,I must commend you on the penetration you achieved, in the root of the butt!Also,...... very nice pornographic closeups! I especially like this photo......... the "Butt Crack"Last edited by Ron Jeremy; 01-21-2008 at 12:48 PM.
Reply:Man that is some very nice work.Thanks for a most informative Post Hotrodder, I like what I see.
Reply:Thank you DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Way to go! ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:thanks hotrodder, beautiful work.
Reply:Lovely welding dude.The photos , particularly in post 3 highlight a potential problem I had to learn the hard way. Tack spacing.Aluminium has that horrible habit of tightening up in butt welds if you don't have your tacks close enough.A good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Sexy weldsMiller Dynasty 200DX Tig Welder
Reply:nice work....Me!
Reply:nice demo hotrodder  Creative metal Creative metal Facebook
Reply:cheers everyone!Westcoast, i did this to demonstrate that the 'oxide line' is cosmetic so i couldn't remove/thin the root prior to bending. in hindsight i would have gotten a better bend (more root/less HAZ stretching) if i had taken the cap below the base thickness instead of leaving it flushRon Jeremy, ROFLMAO  . i bet you've rooted more butts in your time than most pipewelders  . take care to only root the right kind of butt and remember that preperation and cleanliness are paramount Brett, yeah you can see where i planished the tacks in the same post to 'relieve' the shrinkage. i would have tacked a real part properly but only needed enough weld to cut a 1.5" bend coupon
Reply:Looking good.When a weld looks that good, there's not much use in bending it.
Reply:Like the pics posted earlier by "theworldsgreatestwelder", a fine example of quality, professional welding, sets a standard that others can try to achieve.  Excellent pics, excellent commentary.
Reply:I  can't do it, but By next week I will be able to pulse spray aluminum and will try again.  I have a lot of 1/4" scrap.Those are some of the best welds I have seen here.  Hotrodder and Worldsgreatestwelder.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:you will be able to with practice. i'll try and describe it in words but it will sound a lot harder than it actually is...for TIG, get some thinner material (0.060-0.090") to practice with- 1/4" is a bit too thick for your machine and requires a weld prep regardless. force yourself to give that zirconiated tungsten you haven't used a proper try, with a rounded tip- as long as it doesn't have a massive ball at the end it will give a very stable arc. there's no advantage with a narrow arc for a butt weld and the rounded tip will give a 'softer' arc and a wider puddle. it will be easier to see what's going on. once you're used to and can recognize the subtle signs the puddle gives, tungsten type/prep won't matterno pulsing (via pedal or machine), the idea is to balance heat and travel to carry the puddle- almost at the point of blowing a hole. the filler additions help prevent the puddle running away too as they're constantly cooling it. only small pedal adjustments should be necessary to compensate for the part heating up. cap appearance comes from filler additions NOT pulsing the arcwatch the puddle (don't add filler and move as soon as it forms), wait for it get VERY shiney and begin to sink before adding filler and moving. 'wait' in this instance is relative- maybe the blink of an eye. if the amps are right you'll be able to move along at a comfortable pace without pausing. the weld can be done slow or fast, as long as the heat/travel/filler are all balanced. from a mechanical point of view faster is better as the overal heat input will be lower- one thing at a time though, go at a comfortable pace and adjust heat to suit
Reply:I'll be trying that.  Thank youDavid Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderfrom a mechanical point of view faster is better as the overal heat input will be lower- one thing at a time though, go at a comfortable pace and adjust heat to suit
Reply:WouwBest penetration pic i´ve seenWhere do you work? A nuclear plant or a NASA project might be suitable for you My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:Nice work Hotrod!Originally Posted by Ron JeremyHotrodder,I must commend you on the penetration you achieved, in the root of the butt!Also,...... very nice pornographic closeups! I especially like this photo......... the "Butt Crack"
Reply:Hi,I guess this is as good of place to post my questions since I see there is a "hotrodder "here.I'm a long time rodder, builder, toolmaker, engineer and a few others.I have a Lincoln 175 that is ok I guess. Not the old Miller that I learned TIG on many years ago and doen't have the very latest adjustability that I'm thinking I need now.So here goes:back on post 3 hotrodder shows some excellent photos of welds and the one that really interests me shows the 'butt crack.'I do a lot of fuel tank repair and a few new tanks for the streetrod and racers.  Almost all of my aluminum welding is done on 14 ga or less, usuallly .050 and .040 5052.I have a tank in for repair that has probably the best welds I've ever seen.  They look the same inside and outside.  I don't see how it could have been machine welded as there are various turns that would have prevented it.  It almost looks gas welded except for the TIG like beads. It is .050 and I think it is 5052 judging by the hardness and stiffness of the material.  Near the welds it is considerably softer however.I don't know how it would have been possible to use a backing in this tank.  I have been able to look at every weld and they are flawless inside and out.  This tank is at least 15 years old and was anodized.  I had them strip it so it is clean now.I had to cut a sizable section out of  this so I tried some practice welds.When I weld this stuff no matter how hard I try I still get the butt crack or closed butt crack. At very best I can get a full weld on the inside but you can clearly see a dark line down the middle of it.  To date I haven't had any problems with the welds cracking even on some really old stuff I did back in my shop work days.  You can clearly see the oxide layer on the inside weld.  I have a good double flow regulator so I can back purge. This doesn't seem to help much except for stainless.I have a number of stainless wire brushes that are used just for aluminum. I also have some stainless wool. It is supposed to be 304 but I can't verify it.  I can't say it is bad or good either.  I have brushed and immediately began welding, I've stopped and brushed again, I've even gone so far as to brush the filler rods. I still get the same thing.  Outside welds are ok, it's just the inside that doesn't pass muster.  I also have some de-oxidized copper sheet that i use for backing occasionally. It works when I can use it.Being old school I have a hard time converting to the auto dark lens. I still habitually flip the helmut up.  I still on occasion use the old flip down helmut. I normally use a #8 shade for this welding.  Interesting enough I see better welds with the old lens.  It definitely is a different color.  I use several reading glasses for help with my eyesight.  the welds appear magnified so I can control the puddle better.For this I use both green and red 1/16 tungstens with new gas lens and ceramic, no real difference. I balled both and tried both pointed.  I see some difference but the balled green seems better. At least the welds look better.I got fresh 1/16 5356 rod as the tank will be re-anodized.  I have also gone over the welder for gas leaks from the regulator to the electrode. Nothing.  I have grounded directly to the tank, no difference.  The pedal works very well. I set the welder at about 60 amps and I have plenty of range with the pedal.  I think I have some technic problem that maybe you guys can help with. Any suggestions???thanks
Reply:Hotrodder!!Great post,  (GOT TO IT from the Practicing thread I started theat you commented on)  best AL info to date.  I cut/pasted several of your commentaries out to put in my How to archive to reference as I learn.I also will try to get the book you referenced.(So where do you live? I should pay your fare to come up and tutor this ole fart to tig aluminum)Many thanks,TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Hotrodder,I ordered the Lincoln hand book today and look forward to studying it.In post #21 you mentioned using zirconiated tungsten "rounded", can you elaborate on the grinding proceedure you recommend for the Dynasty 200dx and the recomended size for 1/8" plate?I have been making progress on my AL beads, still  feel inadequate in just what to do with the settings as to Balance and freq. I have been using between 60-70 balance and 180 freq with the peak amps set at 130.  I am welding on a coupons that are aprox 2 x6"Thanks for the great photos that clarify a lot what many have been saying.TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by UltrachopHotrodder,I ordered the Lincoln hand book today and look forward to studying it.In post #21 you mentioned using zirconiated tungsten "rounded", can you elaborate on the grinding proceedure you recommend for the Dynasty 200dx and the recomended size for 1/8" plate?I have been making progress on my AL beads, still  feel inadequate in just what to do with the settings as to Balance and freq. I have been using between 60-70 balance and 180 freq with the peak amps set at 130.  I am welding on a coupons that are aprox 2 x6"Thanks for the great photos that clarify a lot what many have been saying.Tim
Reply:Go1lum,Thanks for the quick reply!I will give those settings a try,  I tried to get some Ceriated, but the LWS didn't have any at the time.  (I fiddled around with the pulsing a little bit, but was a little confused (even after reading the manual)  It would be great to have a "Dynasty" pro to watch and practice with.  (I plan on doing some advertising) here on Craigs list to see if I can hire a little teaching or trade for some other work I am qualified to do.TA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Tim,Never used a Dynasty but from what i've heard they were really designed around the use of a sharp tungsten or sharp with a small flat at the tip- don't know, but they may have trouble starting a rounded tip.  Zirconiated tungsten 'rounds' off naturally with transformer based machines. Typically requires striking an arc briefly with the balance around 55 - 60% EN (toward the upper amperage for a given tungsten size) with inverters after grinding to a short, around 1D, truncated point. For the most part tungsten prep is personal preference, have a look at this thread. Different preps influence arc shape and stability but unless you're running automotated kit weld quality is down to the operatorFor 1/8 material a 3/32 tungsten regardless of prep. Balance and frequency settings effect things a little but i usually use a 1/16 tungsten upto around 80 - 90A AC, 3/32 above this and about the only time i use an 1/8 tungsten on a 200A machine is if i'm running the welder wide open (or close to it) on 'dirty' (metallurgically speaking) castings requiring more EP timeI'd recommend leaving the pulse off for now- once you're pretty/very consistent you'll be in a better position to evaluate the results small changes to pulse parameters make. If/while you're still chasing solid consistancy pulse is more likely to confuse/slow down your learning curve imoBalance and frequency...  best thing is to experiment. Run some beads on an offcut starting with the balance at 70%EN. Take it up to 90% in 5% increments noting the effect on both the weld puddle and the finished bead. Too much EN results in a sluggish puddle initially and a sluggish puddle with 'bits' in it if taken further. Then do the same dropping the EN down to 55%. Below 65% you'll probably notice no improvement in the puddle but the tungsten will start to have a tougher time. Sweet spot on my v205 is between 68 and 74% EN depending on frequency and amperage unless pre weld cleaning is a bit OCD like. Once you've narrowed down the range that gives the best results do it again at different AC frequencies.Don't drive yourself mad with the different settings though. They don't 'make or break' weld quality, just allow an experienced user to tailor the arc for the job at hand making some jobs easier/many jobs fasterAbout a year too late (missed Bentwings post) but that tank sounds to me like it was origionally welded with oxy fuel
Reply:wgwyour dog is eating too much meat , not enough dry food...see h ow the bead looks a little cold?
Reply:Thought id show this pic. We met him on a plane last summer in Miami on a seminar down at AWS! LOL Attached Images
Reply:Hotrodder,Thanks for the tips, I will start a log of the Balance/freq settings and some "identical" bead layouts to get familiar with the machine.  I will pickup some ceriated 3/32 (when I see some in LWS's)Thanks for pointing out the date on Bentwings post!  In my past life I had quite a few "Cub" AL tanks repaired where they had cracked and seems they were somewhat never ending.  the best ones I had seen (built new) were set up with what appeared to be a Flanged edge with either both pieces flanged or one with  the material having a radius in conjunction with the seam that spread the shock/vibration away from the joint.  I can see where consistancy in the bead form would make big differences in AL weldment (when exposed to shock stressing or movement)I have a long ways to go, but determined to get there.  Thanks for your imput.  (I hope to be able to be alittle more consistant with my practice-photo-posting in the future.Enjoy the weekend!TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!  Oh Man !  I starting looking at the first few photo's and IMMEDIATELY thought to myself, "If Metal could be pornographic, this would be it." Ha, ha...,  LOW and BEHOLD !!  All those FANTASTIC photos of WELDS and RON JEREMY (AKA: "The Hedgehog") TOO !!  What an awesome thread !Hah, hah....    Love it./Jman...