Brush rake design ideas?

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I've had  a couple of designs for my brush rake in my head for over a year, but now I'm on the verge of actually building it, I'm second guessing a lot of things.First, the machine it will be used on:Kioti CK35 (roughly 35hp) with 4x4 drive.  The loader will lift a little more than 1300lbs at the pins.  I do not have quick attach for the bucket, so the rake will have to rest on the front of the bucket.  As that I will not be lifting brush with the rake, it can be a little on the heavy side, though my wallet is not as strong as all that. How the rake will be used:  Light brush and debris that has already been grubbed.  I will not be grubbing with this rake, as that it would be an easy way to ruin a nice loader on this small of a machine.I keep wanting to over-design this, I think.  At the same time, I don't want to underbuild.  Up until this week the plans in my head had been for a full brush rake.  Now, I'm thinking just a blade rake, with an expanded metal grill above the rake/bucket to keep nasty things from poking me and my tractor in the eye.The rake will attach to receiver hitches on the top of my bucket, but will also be supported by a length of angle iron across the cutting edge of the bucket:I think it will come out of the receivers and tie into thick walled square tubing that will run along the width of the bucket up top.  This will also be the base of the expanded metal grill.  From that "crossbar," two pieces of flat strap will (one on each end) will run down to tie into a piece of heavy walled 4" square tubing that will run the width of the bucket, backed by the aforementioned angle iron that will brace it on the cutting edge. These two lengths of plate will also form the outer teeth on each side of the rake.The actual teeth will attach to the bottom of the 4" square tube.  They will be 4" wide, and cut at an angle to form teeth.  In my head I was picturing 1" thick plate, but am thinking now that might be overkill, as that this will be a light duty rake. I'm wondering if going down to 1/2 or 9/16 would save some money/weight and be a bit easier to weld, but without making the thing "too" weak? What to you think about the thickness of the teeth?This design is more like what I've used on dozers.  The designs I've seen for wheel loaders have tines more curved, and would work well for lifting plies of brush.  I do not foresee myself needing that, and the curved tines would be more difficult for me to fabricate with my limited skills and set up.  When I get quick attach on my loader I might consider building something like that (because a grapple would be cool to have too) but for now I think I'm going to stick with the straightforward design.Anyway, any thoughts, suggestions, comments?OLD miller M-295  (AC)Century 230/140 ac/dcVictor torchNot much else but some cheap tools.
Reply:Farmer Samm should be able to help you w/ this as he just built one for the 3 point on his tractor which is a lot larger than your's. I think samm can give you a lot of pointers and ideas as he likes to keep things on a low budget which I see nothing wrong with.       How about it, Samm??                                 MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Oops, posted that before I was finished.  Here is the type of stuff it will be used on:Did that with just the bucket and my landscape rake, but it would be easier and safer for the belly of the tractor with a brush rake.  Which reminds me, I need to get started on my belly pan too.Last edited by Rowdius; 04-23-2009 at 10:39 PM.OLD miller M-295  (AC)Century 230/140 ac/dcVictor torchNot much else but some cheap tools.
Reply:Just a thought for ya. See what you can get chev P/U torsion bars for from the wrecking yard. They should work good for a brush rake.                      MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I think you could get away with making the entire thing out of 3x3 11ga square tubing.  I've recently switched to lighter wall tubing with good results.Using heavy plate to connect the teeth might not give you the resistance to lateral movement, plus it's pretty heavy and expensive.In my crappy drawing the lower stubs would fit the inside of the bucket at the floor.  They would prevent sideways motion.  The top stub would be the thing to go into the receiver.If you put the connecting arrangement higher up on the rake thingy, you can drive into it with the bucker raised instead of having to lift it up to attach to the bucket.I'd almost figure that you could keep the whole thing in the 300lb or less range by using the lighter gauge tubing.  It's amazing the different forces that stuff will resist.  During the last year or so, I've been really learning to build lighter.  It's a lot easier on the pocket book.  Plus if you're the one using it, you know about it's possible limitations and can work accordingly. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI think you could get away with making the entire thing out of 3x3 11ga square tubing.  I've recently switched to lighter wall tubing with good results.Using heavy plate to connect the teeth might not give you the resistance to lateral movement, plus it's pretty heavy and expensive.In my crappy drawing the lower stubs would fit the inside of the bucket at the floor.  They would prevent sideways motion.  The top stub would be the thing to go into the receiver.If you put the connecting arrangement higher up on the rake thingy, you can drive into it with the bucker raised instead of having to lift it up to attach to the bucket.I'd almost figure that you could keep the whole thing in the 300lb or less range by using the lighter gauge tubing.  It's amazing the different forces that stuff will resist.  During the last year or so, I've been really learning to build lighter.  It's a lot easier on the pocket book.  Plus if you're the one using it, you know about it's possible limitations and can work accordingly.
Reply:IMO you may have trouble with the bottom tube deforming with the teeth like that.  How long were you planning on the teeth being?  For my skid loader I have a blade with teeth welded on the just slips on the edge of the bucket and bolts on.  You have to tilt the bucket to scratch things up out of the dirt, but it works well and is very simple.  I can go take a pic if you are interested.  Think very aggressive dirt bucket.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmIMO you may have trouble with the bottom tube deforming with the teeth like that.  How long were you planning on the teeth being?  For my skid loader I have a blade with teeth welded on the just slips on the edge of the bucket and bolts on.  You have to tilt the bucket to scratch things up out of the dirt, but it works well and is very simple.  I can go take a pic if you are interested.  Think very aggressive dirt bucket.
Reply:Now I see what you're aiming at.  I thought you wanted something to lift and pile brush.I like how the one on the dozer is hinged to it can sorta float to some degree.How do you plan to keep the teeth from digging in.  Angling the bucket, or maybe curving the bottom of the teeth?It's really a lot more stressed design than I envisioned.  Those teeth are a boooooger."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:For a brush rake on a loader bucket I'd make it so the teeth are parallel to the bottom of the bucket and just slip the teeth under the brush, lift and stack it on the pile. That way it will shake out a majority of the dirt on the way to the brush pile.                        JMHO,                                    MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNow I see what you're aiming at.  I thought you wanted something to lift and pile brush.I like how the one on the dozer is hinged to it can sorta float to some degree.How do you plan to keep the teeth from digging in.  Angling the bucket, or maybe curving the bottom of the teeth?It's really a lot more stressed design than I envisioned.  Those teeth are a boooooger.
Reply:Sandy makes a huge difference.  It's mostly hard clay around here.Would there be any way to make provision for shear pins on the bar holding the teeth.  I know it runs the cost up, and adds problems to the design, and might be totally unneccessary in your situation.Hit a stump, or buried root at 3mph, and it could leave you getting up close and personal with the instruement panel"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:How about a pin on design? http://grademastersales.com/dozer.htmlAnd I like this one as an overall design with the curve and such. High backing.  The SR series.http://www.rocklandmfg.com/Dozers/blade_rake.html
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammSandy makes a huge difference.  It's mostly hard clay around here.Would there be any way to make provision for shear pins on the bar holding the teeth.  I know it runs the cost up, and adds problems to the design, and might be totally unneccessary in your situation.Hit a stump, or buried root at 3mph, and it could leave you getting up close and personal with the instruement panel
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyHow about a pin on design? http://grademastersales.com/dozer.htmlAnd I like this one as an overall design with the curve and such. High backing.  The SR series.http://www.rocklandmfg.com/Dozers/blade_rake.html
Reply:Ah Ha! That is the photo of the one I posted in my post that disappeared! My orginal design was a full rake, like the SR on that site, but to save money and time I switched gears to a blade rake. It will basically be a pin on, but it will stab into the recievers I have on the tractor.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyHey, you can always add on as time and billfold allow.   AS long as you have a torch and a welder, nothing is forever.
Reply:It's really pretty cool stuff.  I never thought of making something that would pick up all the little pieces of crap.  I usually have to spend days picking up by hand.I got a real mess of small branches where I've been clearing trees, and I'll probably never get them picked up.  Cows on the run can break a leg if they trip.I had one so hobbled up that she couldn't keep up with the others, and eventually went off her feed, and died.  Wasn't a thing I could do.  Herd animals are funny that way.  They get stressed when they can't be with the others.Last edited by farmersamm; 04-26-2009 at 01:04 AM.Reason: "by hand""Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIt's really pretty cool stuff.  I never thought of making something that would pick up all the little pieces of crap.  I usually have to spend days picking up by hand.I got a real mess of small branches where I've been clearing trees, and I'll probably never get them picked up.  Cows on the run can break a leg if they trip.I had one so hobbled up that she couldn't keep up with the others, and eventually went off her feed, and died.  Wasn't a thing I could do.  Herd animals are funny that way.  They get stressed when they can't be with the others.