Trying to tig 23 guage

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I have been trying to weld a T joint (fillet) on some 23 guage sheet metal.  I don't need to do this, but its a personal challenge.  I clean the dickens out of it, and try.  I keep burning through the top piece.  I need more heat to get the puddle going on the base piece.  I tried pointing the torch more to the base, but when I try to move the puddle on the top piece, I burn through it.  30 amps, .040 2%.  No joy yet.  I tried holding the filler on the top piece to soak up some heat, but nuttin yet.  I could post pics, but you would just laugh like I have.Any Idears?DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:23 guage..Lets see..Thats 9/32" or in Decimals .281...That should be pretty easy..Try around 150 amps..Use a shrarp 3/32" tungestion..Try to get the piece off the table..Even if its only 1/8"...You have a huge heat soak there..Aim at the joint and be paient..Use about 1/2 throttle and build up your heat from there..Don't "mash" it right away.. But eventually you'll step down more..Once you have a puddle started..Take it from there..I'm not gonna tell ya everything...  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Looks like you slipped a decimel point Zap, how about 0.0269"?
Reply:Yeah I was gonna say 150 AMPS!@@##$$
Reply:Here is a nice conversion chart for mild, galvanized and aluminum sheet metal: http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/sc...heetmetal.htmlJohn -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:The piece measures .028".  I used the posted chart to figure out its 23 guage.  Just little stuff.  I did weld a toaster oven once.  It was little.I used the 1 amp for .001".  It seems to be close.  I tried pulse with a little better luck, but in 5" of weld, I had probably 1/2" that was not burned through the top piece.I AM going to do it!Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Check this old posting pulsed parameters for some SS around 23 gauge.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...ght=pulsed+tig
Reply:Taken from the "stickey" at the top (second down) of this forum..23 9/320 .028125 .714375 18 1.125 .5103 5.493 12.11...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Yep, its 9/320, not 9/32.Heres another conversion site, it lists 23 gauge as 0.0269", not sure which is more correct.http://www.onlineconversion.com/gauge_sheet_metal.htm...splat!
Reply:I don't mean to confuse the question but I'm lost. I thought the general rule was 1 amp per .001 thickness. That being said 23 gauge would be closer to 30 amps, what am I doing wrong? 150 amps sounds like too much?
Reply:LOL, yeah, around 15-20amps should do the trick. I think Zap must be drinking today. It sounds like you don't have a good fit to me. With stuff that thin, the two pieces need to be clamped together very tightly, no hint of a gap whatsoever.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:If you have your welding current dial set at 30 amps, just lift off your pedal when you're about to blow through.WeldingWeb forum--now more sophomoric banter than anything else!
Reply:Bang!Shoot me dead.. OK Ok I admit it..I use too many zeros and decimal points every day..And sometimes they bite!OUCH...Now I do need a beer!!.. Nobody is impervious to mistakes..Not me.. Not you..But on the serious side 30 amps max..1/16" tungestion..Sharp is better for thin stuff.. and in reality.. you need like .030 wire from a gas mig...I'm not sure that it comes that thin in a box.....zap! ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:David, I recently built a gas tank out of 22 ga. with a small cheapie tig that has a range from 5 to 130A. All my welding was done on the minimum setting and I would have turned it down some more if I could. Running at 30A sounds like way too  much power to me. I used 1/16 tung. and tried some 30 mig wire for filler but had to feed the mig wire too fast to be convient so I switched to 1/16 rod and it worked much better. You're going to have to direct all your heat to the base plate and just let some of the heat sort of spill onto the vertical piece and filler rod together to melt them, and like said above, get the base piece up in the air so the table doesn't absorb the heat being put into it. I think you're going to need to be adding filler rod at the same time the vertical piece is becoming moulten. Just so you get an idea what I did to practice, here is some of it. Attached Images
Reply:Thats One Fine Gas Tank...lolKISS...KEEP IT SAFE STUPID
Reply:hi all,david, you didn't say what size filler you were using. as zap said some mig wire would be a good choice. the thinest tig wire i've seen available is 1.0mm (0.040"), this too should work but 1/16" will require more heat to melt than your weldment.as already said, fit up is extremely important and get the thing off your weld table, it'll act as a heatsink on one of the pieces. of course you could clamp the pieces with a chunk of Al and use it as a proper heatsink (right behind the weld bead) but you'll only be accused of cheating  you might want to try this exercise. take a piece of thicker sheet (say 18 or 20 gauge), set it up to run a weld bead right on the cut edge using some mig wire as filler. this is IMO a great lesson in puddle control. once you've mastered 18 gauge go thinner.
Reply:Stick with it!  I was on a job where we had some 22 guage stainless that I had to tig up with a butt joint.  Some if it overlapped slightly some of it had an open root because well, it ain't a perfect world.  :PIt was hard and I practiced for about 15 minutes burning through every time.  We ditched the big welder and got a little tiny tig welder and some 1/16" tungsten and some piano wire sized filler rod and set the welder as low as it went I think it was a couple amps or so.  I still burned through on the open root but was able to fill it and made some decent looking welds.I have no suggestions except go small with your tungsten and filler rod.  Set your welder as low as it goes and turn it up as you feel you need it and GO SLOW!  I did a lot of manual pulsing to get the job done.  Luckily the customer wanted it ground down and polished smooth because it wasn't the prettiest thing i've welded.
Reply:Yeah 30 amps seems a little high, especially with 23 ga. I don´t use that rule for TIG, it will give you just a basic idea where you should be more less, but usually I TIG with 5 to 10% less than the rule. When MIGin I go up, and Stick I´ll go down, I guess its just my welding style.My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:Originally Posted by elvergonWhen MIGin I go up, and Stick I´ll go down, I guess its just my welding style.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI have been trying to weld a T joint (fillet) on some 23 guage sheet metal.  I don't need to do this, but its a personal challenge.  I clean the dickens out of it, and try.  I keep burning through the top piece.  I need more heat to get the puddle going on the base piece.  I tried pointing the torch more to the base, but when I try to move the puddle on the top piece, I burn through it.  30 amps, .040 2%.  No joy yet.  I tried holding the filler on the top piece to soak up some heat, but nuttin yet.  I could post pics, but you would just laugh like I have.Any Idears?David
Reply:This was an old thread.  I did finally get it right.  Please see this thread.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=9921  David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.