Latest work - Cages

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I was asked by a local landlord if I could build some A/C cages.  I never have, but said "Sure".  Wound up building 11.  Then, he passed my name to another landlord, he wanted 4, and a few A/C servicemen have been calling.  Seems like now I am the "Go to guy" in my tri-county area for A/C cages.  Pretty good little gig to think about when work is slow.I'm still working out some other designs, and have decided to use "puck" style locks from Masterlock on future ones.Here are a few pictures... Attached ImagesIt's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Probably a dumb question I know.......but why do they need cages around them?Millermatic 252"Don't worry, he's got a welder, he can fix anything"
Reply:I want to know that too. Is it to keep them in or the undesirables out?
Reply:Copper/ alum  theft would be my guess. It's dropped signifigantly in my area, but for awhile they were stealing Ac condenser units as fast as they would get installed. I saw one church had 3 snatched in a row in one week. They'd install a new unit, and the thieves would steal it before anyone could get any sort of theft deterant on it.
Reply:Great work JC. One thing to give some real consideration to tho. Take that very first unit for example, they pull tha lid off those by removing all those upper perimeter screws and lifting that fan shrowd and fan out first. Then the compressor is probably straight down inside there. So it's important that when it's horrible hot and miserable to be able to access all the screws and lift the lid easily. Then there will be one odd corner (not viewabale in the pics) that needs to be pulled off to get to the in/out wiring, contactor, caps, filler/vent fittings and so on. Just some thoughts. You have to build them to keep the bad guys out and let the good guys in. Could be you didn't block one single screw tho. If not perfect job. Last edited by Sandy; 07-21-2009 at 01:39 AM.
Reply:I've heard of scrapper's around here gutting houses while the owner's were away.  If only they'd put that much effort into getting a job...I think a few dead bodies would also serve as an effective deterrant.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWelding  I'm still working out some other designs, and have decided to use "puck" style locks from Masterlock on future ones....
Reply:Ooops!  I see the first one was has the legs buried and concreted into the ground.  That ought to slow them down.
Reply:Cool!Great job JC.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerThe cages look good, I liked the last one.  Did you simply lag bolt with lead anchors to the concrete?  Not beng critical, but I would be a little fearful they could back the bolts out and remove the cage.  Scrap metal has dropped so the theft in these parts has dropped some, but there are still cases where someone is looking for an easy buck.
Reply:I can understand about the need for cages. I had a new house built. The morning of closing, a friend just so happened to come by to see the finished house.....He calls me on the phone and asks where my outside units were and why they were gone? I said "what? "your'e crazy!" I really, appreciated him going by because, I was on the way to sign papers.... The evening before we did the final walk thru and all was good. Later, my (new) neighbor said he saw an a/c crew come remove them. He thought I was having them do it.  They were in an a/c liscensed truck and were wearing work uniforms. I've been told that they like tranes and the high end units to resell to customers as new. Problem is when you have a problem w/ your unit and warranty is intact..you find out that your warranty is no good because you own a stolen unit  I built cages on mine as the first project in the new house!!!!Try to think about the guy who works on those units and make sure they can still do their job w/o too much interference and your'e good to goNice job by the way. and don't forget you can always lag the units down by pulling the fan shroud off and running  concrete anchors thru the holes provided. good luck
Reply:I'm not a big fan of "pin set" type anchors like you used in the second one. The problem is that they are not easily removable, same as with the poured in place unit. As said if someone needs service on a unit it would be nice to be able to access whats needed,The poured in place unit, I could see setting "feet" that you slide the main legs over and then secure with security screws or even simple tack welds that could be cut if required. On the second unit, I would look at putting the fasteners inside and difficult to get to, or using nuts/bolts and tacking then to the bracket. Thats on real good use for a small 110v mig. I could also see "boxing" the nuts/bolts, Take a chunk of square tube turned sideways and tighten the nut/ bolt thru the opening. It will take a while to do but it's doable. To speed installation, oversize the hole drilled in the concrete and use anchoring cement. Take the anchor bolt and install a nut, then the bracket/ cage then the removable nut and tighten. The anchor bolts than stay in place while you set the whole unit down into the holes with the cement. Once the cement dries the AC tech can loosen the nuts to remove the unit, but it takes a while to do so.I could see doing something similar inside the square tube legs. Weld a washer on the open end at the bottom and use the same idea above. Put little plastic caps on the open tops. To remove all you need is a very long 3/8" extension on a ratchet and a magnetic socket to reinstall the nuts.Also don't forget "security" type nuts/ bolts as a posible option even if exposed. There are tons of odd head fasteners if you look thru Graingers or MSC. Torx nuts/ holts, five sided ones etc that you can get to fit standard sizes. You just need the correct tool to remove. Add a short chunk of pipe arround the fastener to prevent use of pliers or vice grips and have it sized so a socket will go in from the top for removal.Last edited by DSW; 07-21-2009 at 11:54 AM.
Reply:Jeez ........ maybe I should look into having one of those built.  Arizona gets hot enough without having to worry about someone making off with your A/C unit .....
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingRemember, these aren't for theft PREVENTION, but rather, a theft DETERRENT.  If the crook sees a cage, he's going to skip and go to the next house, hopefully.
Reply:Looks very nice.  Get enough people that wanted them and it could be a good little business for awhile.
Reply:i  understand the need, and i like the cage design.  I'm not an HVAC person, but will the sheet metal one prevent proper ventilation?  Im thinking about doing something like this when i upgrade my unit to keep the rain, dust and dog hair off of it.
Reply:Sorry JC, I forgot my manners, you did a great job.  It is truly amazing what some people will steal and to what great lengths they will go to.  I've seen bollards around these units in commercial settings where traffic can get to them, just haven't seen cages.  What an awesome gig to get into though, good idea.  I can see where you would be buried with work in a very short time, for sure.Millermatic 252"Don't worry, he's got a welder, he can fix anything"
Reply:Thanks everyone.  Thanks for the great ideas as usual DSW.  You are a fountain of knowledge.  I really like the idea of boxing in the bolt heads.I came up with 3-4 designs, then hit the streets to talk to some A/C guys to find out what they like and dislike about cages.  I really want them to be service friendly, but secure at the same time.  It's a hird line to walk sometimes.  Got a call today for 3 more.Forgot to tell you guys this...  The average cost to build one is $35-$45 in materials.  I sell them for $250 and up.  I can do 2 a day easy, installed.  As I do more, and work out the bugs, I could probably do 3+ a day.  But, the last week and a half I have averaged $500-$600 a day doing these.  That's insane!  And the phone keeps ringing.I'm lucky to be getting this work, and being able to provide this service.  But I really am trying to make them serviceman friendly.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingThanks everyone.  Thanks for the great ideas as usual DSW.  You are a fountain of knowledge.  I really like the idea of boxing in the bolt heads.I came up with 3-4 designs, then hit the streets to talk to some A/C guys to find out what they like and dislike about cages.  I really want them to be service friendly, but secure at the same time.  It's a hird line to walk sometimes.  Got a call today for 3 more.Forgot to tell you guys this...  The average cost to build one is $35-$45 in materials.  I sell them for $250 and up.  I can do 2 a day easy, installed.  As I do more, and work out the bugs, I could probably do 3+ a day.  But, the last week and a half I have averaged $500-$600 a day doing these.  That's insane!  And the phone keeps ringing.I'm lucky to be getting this work, and being able to provide this service.  But I really am trying to make them serviceman friendly.
Reply:Damn..once I get set up..im gunna be cranking these out..haha..just messing..thats a pretty cool thing ya got goin on.
Reply:Originally Posted by 99trxriderDamn..once I get set up..im gunna be cranking these out..haha..just messing..thats a pretty cool thing ya got goin on.
Reply:To make servicing easier and not worrying about covering access screws/bolts, I would do a simple clam shell design with the opening 8" below the top of the A/C unit. Good job on the ones you have done so far. In this economy, glad to see you have steady work.Fire!, Fire! Oh wait, that's my torch...Lincoln PT-225 TIGLincoln 175 MIG
Reply:Any more ideas for quick projects?  I'm gonna use them with my business.  "T" posts for clotheslines, now cages for A/C units, security gates for houses, W/C ramps for slab built homes.  I can get these sold pretty quick too.  Now just need the time.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I live close to Baltimore, I've got to wonder if I could make a few of these lol.
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2Any more ideas for quick projects?  I'm gonna use them with my business.  "T" posts for clotheslines, now cages for A/C units, security gates for houses, W/C ramps for slab built homes.  I can get these sold pretty quick too.  Now just need the time.Originally Posted by VipernutTo make servicing easier and not worrying about covering access screws/bolts, I would do a simple clam shell design with the opening 8" below the top of the A/C unit. Good job on the ones you have done so far. In this economy, glad to see you have steady work.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingOne of my designs was like this...  The back 8" or so against the house was fixed.  The rest of the cage was hinged at the bottom of the outside edge.  That way there was absolutely nothing in the way when it was opened.
Reply:I say make the Trane dood earn his bucksThe reason I now have window units is because of the UNGODLY quote I got to fix the central air.Now I run cheaper, cooler, and Earth Friendly(less electricity)You can call me Mr. Greenjeans"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hmm...  What about unlocking the top, lifting it off, and all four sides hinged at the bottom and it opens like a flower.  Or, better yet, having the lock system at the bottom, and the whole cage lifts off.  That way it would really be out of the way!  I'd better get out the pencil and paper.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Great work.  You've got yourself something going there.  Others still in business could do well by making them in other parts of the country.It would be real simple to market them.  Make one, temp install it, take pics, design a flier, mail to all HVAC businesses in your market area.  Perhaps even place a flier on the bulletin boards in supermarkets.Copper and alum are still high theft items.
Reply:I suspect that if you sent pictures of those "enclosures" (photos 3 & 4) to the manufacturers of the compressors, you'd cause them to have a heart attack.No way do those enclosures provide adequate airflow to properly cool the unit.  Might as well just "shrink wrap" them to keep the rain off.Don't believe me.  Contact the manufacturers.The cages are another story.  Good ideas there.  At least if they fail, they won't fall and potentially kill anyone (not like the go-kart track shelter).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Afterthought.Your "design" of those compressor enclosures just further reinforces my previous belief that you "don't have a clue" as to what you're doing.I can see where the AC Techs would love you.  They'll be replacing fried compressors as fast as the manufacturers can build them.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIAfterthought.Your "design" of those compressor enclosures just further reinforces my previous belief that you "don't have a clue" as to what you're doing.I can see where the AC Techs would love you.  They'll be replacing fried compressors as fast as the manufacturers can build them.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingHmm...  What about unlocking the top, lifting it off, and all four sides hinged at the bottom and it opens like a flower.  Or, better yet, having the lock system at the bottom, and the whole cage lifts off.  That way it would really be out of the way!  I'd better get out the pencil and paper.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIAfterthought.Your "design" of those compressor enclosures just further reinforces my previous belief that you "don't have a clue" as to what you're doing.I can see where the AC Techs would love you.  They'll be replacing fried compressors as fast as the manufacturers can build them.
Reply:I guess that's the difference between knowing something about what you're doing and not knowing much of anything.I would not have built the cage around something I knew was wrong.I'd sit the owner down and explain that that compressor needs a free flow of air to perform properly.  That I'd be happy to build his cage, but not until the "cover" is removed because I don't want to be on the blame line when his compressor fries itself.In my world a professional knows how to do the job he's taking on and has the tools (or can acquire them (buy, rent, borrow)) to get the job done.  He doesn't have to run to an internet board and ask "HOW DO I DO THIS JOB".A hack on the other hand lacks the experience and has to ask others where to start and doesn't possess the tools to do the job efficiently.  There are few professional welders (you know, guys who make there living at this) who haven't had to clean up behind some hack.  Gives the whole industry a bad rep.As an engineer, I've had to deal with this issue nearly my entire adult life.  My favorite is the "Design Consultant".  That's sugar coating for a guy who generally lacks the education and/or experience to be a real engineer.  Advertising as a welding business implies that the welder is qualified.  A qualified welder doesn't ask the questions the OP has asked on this board.  In summation he's "Not Ready for Prime Time".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown...Really reaching here aren't you.  You are trying so hard to beat me down, that you don't even know what you are talking about.  Tell you what, why don't YOU call the compressor manufacturer and tell them that THEIR design sucks, since THEY built it.  This was a commercial fridge compressor that operates a florist refrigerator.   NOT your typical residential unit.I didn't build the enclosure, just the cage.  But, go ahead and call them and tell them that their commercial units that are installed all over the country are inadequate, and will burn up their units.  I think I might have a picture of the other side of their unit so you can check for adequate air flow.  Let me see if I can find it.Geezer:  Thanks.  I hope you guys can do something with it.  The plan you propose, I wrote some where on the first page I think.  I have thought of hinging like that, just have to draw it out.  DSW was talking about on slabs where the cage was lag bolted to the slab, and covering the bolt head with a section of the square tube to "box" it in so it couldn't be un-bolted.  I'm doing two more tomorrow that will be sunk in the ground/concrete.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:JC, don't worry about what other naysayer's say.  These are don't look to make the compressor section "theft proof", only a big deterrent to the casual thief.If someone has a better idea, post up the pictures or designs.  An "Engineer" should be able to draw one up pretty easy & post it here.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWelding  [B]Geezer  I have thought of hinging like that, just have to draw it out.  DSW was talking about on slabs where the cage was lag bolted to the slab, and covering the bolt head with a section of the square tube to "box" it in so it couldn't be un-bolted.  I'm doing two more tomorrow that will be sunk in the ground/concrete.
Reply:Being in Florida the land of the repossessed I can see the need for these.Heck they need them all round the house. But I think the sheet metal shroud is unnecessary and would cut down the efficiency of the unit significantly.The deterrent is the cage, once that is off then the shroud is not stopping anybody, so why do it? Why don't you put the lock on the ground and have the cage inverted. At the back fix some kind of internal pin/cotter pin arrangement . Then the service guy could unlock the cage reach around back somehow undo the latches there and lift the whole thing off? Provided you didn't build it out structural steel !!
Reply:Sorry I only read the first page of the forum and after I posted I saw that several people on Page 2 had similar ideas. Why all the nastiness? This guy is nice enough to post pictures and suggest a way of keeping people working.Yes some it is not the way I would do things but if you want to choose between feeding the kids or doing what the customer insists then I know what I choose. Work is golden right now
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moroni  understand the need, and i like the cage design.  I'm not an HVAC person, but will the sheet metal one prevent proper ventilation?  Im thinking about doing something like this when i upgrade my unit to keep the rain, dust and dog hair off of it.
Reply:Hey JC, I really like the cages.How do you attach them to the ground? Are they just pushed in or is concrete actually poured?
Reply:JC,  Good job on the theft prevention cages. As for the sheet metal "enclosure" I get to town a little more often than someclowns do and I also have several good friends in the HVAC business. Think commercial units not residential. I also think it is great that you ask for ideas and help for some of your projects. This does not make you a hack, but rather an open minded person who wants to try to get info and ideas that may make for an overall better product. It also shows that you do not THINK YOU KNOW IT ALL. Nice work,3M TA3
Reply:LOL..Yeah cuase that square tubing is really blocking all the air off from the unit.  Sundown your a joke.  JC your posts are great.  Your always willing to learn and your questions are good.  I think alot of people benifit from them.  You also know some stuff your self and can help people on here.  Dont let this guy get to you.  Hes a real bad one.
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2An "Engineer" should be able to draw one up pretty easy & post it here.
Reply:Pookie,You're definitely right about time.That's the nice thing about being "semi-retired".  You have a little time to do what you want.  I retired the first time from the military (Corps of Engineers) at age 41.  The second time about two years ago.  Now I work when the "work" interests me.In the OP's original posting he clearly stated that he had been asked to build enclosures (by a landlord) for AC units.  First two photos were of a residential style outside compressor.  Photos 3 & 4 showed a shrouded unit.  No mention was made of a florist shop with an outside compressor for a flower cooler.  One thing this ol engineer doesn't have is x-ray vision. Based on some of the "other creations" the OP has posted up, it is not beyond belief that he would put this sort of enclosure on an updraft unit.BTW.  I'd be happy to draw up a secure cage that is easily removable and easy to fabricate, but it's not going to be for free.  I guess you get what you pay for.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:they look good i make ac cages allsoand ive made a bottle tree to Attached Images
Reply:Ed,LMAO,Bet that was one heck of a hangover, what with having to empty all those bottles for the tree.COOLSyncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIPookie,You're definitely right about time.That's the nice thing about being "semi-retired".  You have a little time to do what you want.  I retired the first time from the military (Corps of Engineers) at age 41.  The second time about two years ago.  Now I work when the "work" interests me.In the OP's original posting he clearly stated that he had been asked to build enclosures (by a landlord) for AC units.  First two photos were of a residential style outside compressor.  Photos 3 & 4 showed a shrouded unit.  No mention was made of a florist shop with an outside compressor for a flower cooler.  One thing this ol engineer doesn't have is x-ray vision. Based on some of the "other creations" the OP has posted up, it is not beyond belief that he would put this sort of enclosure on an updraft unit.BTW.  I'd be happy to draw up a secure cage that is easily removable and easy to fabricate, but it's not going to be for free.  I guess you get what you pay for.