Converting a boat trailer to a utility trailer(Progress Pics)

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i bought this boat trailer for $200 that i will be converting to a utility trailer. it is an old tandem axle holsclaw trailer with the coil springs and struts which give it a nice ride. when i bought it it only had one axle the other one had rusted out. so far i have rebuilt the second axle and spread out the frame rails i have alot left to do and hope to get it done in a week or two i will keep you guys updated. and by the way i am 16 and have only een welding for a few months. all this welding was done with a miller sidekick 115v.
Reply:Here is a pic of when i first got the trailer then a pic of when i took the rollers off Attached Images
Reply:then i started on the axle in the first pic i got it tacked because i wanted to test fit it to make sure everything lined up. then in the second pic i got it installed on the trailer Attached Images
Reply:then today i spread the framerails out they have many different mounting holes and without drilling any new ones i put them out as far as i could. i also moved the axles up about a foot. was in a hurry it was getting dark so i didn't get a chance to get all the supports on the toung so don't think i am leaving it like that. also the frame got allitle tweaked somehow will have to see if i can get it back square when i put some crossbraces on but if not it is not a big deal. Attached Images
Reply:and here is an example of my welds with the miller 115v Attached Images
Reply:The welds look nice and consistent and the weave pattern looks nice as well.But don't start/stop on the corners and don't leave the corners unwelded.  Wrap the weld -around- the corners and if you need a start/stop then put it in the middle of the sides.I can't tell from the picture of the weld, did you have enough amps/power/heat to melt INTO the material and not just pile filler on top (aka cold weld, cold lap, lack of fusion/penetration)?You used an older Miller 115V Sidekick MIG machine, what shielding gas and what wire and size did you use?  Standard ER70S-6 and C25?  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:i am using 25/75 argon/co2 and .023 wire. i had the amps cranked all the way up and my wire speed all the way down so i could go slow and get good penatration.
Reply:What's the deal with the cart?  Putting a machine designed to permanently join metal on top of a wooden cart is just wrong.  In some places you run the risk of being tarred and feathered for doing such a thing.
Reply:A proper welding cart is always the first project with a welder, it's a rule.
Reply:Welcome to the forum hondarancher4435.That trailer conversion is looking really good and so do those welds.  Makes me realize I need to get back on my boat trailer conversion too.  Good job and keep the pictures coming.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmWhat's the deal with the cart?  Putting a machine designed to permanently join metal on top of a wooden cart is just wrong.  In some places you run the risk of being tarred and feathered for doing such a thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by hondarancher4435i am using 25/75 argon/co2 and .023 wire. i had the amps cranked all the way up and my wire speed all the way down so i could go slow and get good penatration.
Reply:well the reason it is on a wooden cart is because i had this machine for over a year and coldn't use it because i needed to replace the relay and got tired of moving it around in my shop so i built the wooden cart. also it was alot cheaper than building it out of steel. but im sure sometime soon i will build a steel cart. also i was not aware of the wire speed controlling the amps i thought the voltage was like the heat control and the wire speed was just how fast the wire spooled out. so by my theory i had alot of heat to penatrate and i was going slow with the wire to heat it up more which i guess is not right. they may not be perfect but i have not broken any of my welds yet on things that put alot of stress on them. keep in mind that i have only been welding 6 months and i am only 16 but i will take your suggestions and try them next time i weld.
Reply:You are doing well,,, I notice you have ground off the galvanizing before welding... You obviously have a head on your shoulders. ( pat on the back is deserved)
Reply:General guide : Use 1 amp per 0.001 inch of material thicknessSo 1/8 inch thick material calls for 125 amps, etc, etc0.023/0.025 solid MIG wire runs about 30-90 amps in short-circuit transfer mode and it takes about 3 ipm/amp give-or-take.Lincoln lists 100 ipm to get ~35 amps using their 0.025 L-56 wire.  That would be an appropriate amperage to work on sheet metal steel of about 20 gauge thickness.  Run the WFS up to 250 ipm with that size/type wire and you are up to about 80 amps, which would be about right for 14-16 gauge steel.Read the above link on the Miller site for some info on MIG welding.Also see http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...university.cfm and read the MIG Welding Handbook section.Also see here http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/c4200.pdf  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechmanYou are doing well,,, I notice you have ground off the galvanizing before welding... You obviously have a head on your shoulders. ( pat on the back is deserved)
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseGeneral guide : Use 1 amp per 0.001 inch of material thicknessSo 1/8 inch thick material calls for 125 amps, etc, etc0.023/0.025 solid MIG wire runs about 30-90 amps in short-circuit transfer mode and it takes about 3 ipm/amp give-or-take.Lincoln lists 100 ipm to get ~35 amps using their 0.025 L-56 wire.  That would be an appropriate amperage to work on sheet metal steel of about 20 gauge thickness.  Run the WFS up to 250 ipm with that size/type wire and you are up to about 80 amps, which would be about right for 14-16 gauge steel.Read the above link on the Miller site for some info on MIG welding.Also see http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...university.cfm and read the MIG Welding Handbook section.Also see here http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/c4200.pdf
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Welcome to the forum hondarancher4435.That trailer conversion is looking really good and so do those welds.  Makes me realize I need to get back on my boat trailer conversion too.  Good job and keep the pictures coming.
Reply:hondarancher,On one hand I admire your initative and desire to "get er done".  Not many young people today would even take on such a project.On the other hand, a trailer that goes over the road, is probably not the place to start learning to weld.The lack of understanding of the effects of wire speed (amps) sends up a big red flag.One of the problems with mig is that the weld can look good to the untrained eye (and sometimes even in a photo) and still have no penetration.You are using what many would consider a marginal machine for the task at hand.  Combine that with a lack of experience, and, unfortunately we may have an accident looking for a place to happen.  Trailers experience stresses which are hard to recreate sitting in the driveway.It looks like you really are interested in doing good work.  That's the all important first step.  Before you put that trailer on the road with a load, I'd recommend that you first have it inspected by an experienced fabricator.  Having a tongue/axle come loose, and having your trailer crash into oncoming traffic is not something you want to have to live with the rest of your life.Be Safe.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:yes you are right it is not a good place to start however i have a couple things working for me. the old axle is factory built and has good welds so i can trust that and really all i put the other axle on for was safety in case a tire blows out or something. also at the toung i am going to put some extreme bracing on there just so i can be sure it is not going to break off at a bad moment
Reply:also my dad has been welding for 20+ years and worked for a large welding company for several years and is very good at it but unfortunetly he lives far away and he can not be here to help me but he is coming up soon and will get a chance to check it out before i put any loads on it.
Reply:honda,Read the info links I posted.Especially the parts about WFS and amps, and the recommended relationship of amps to the thickness of metal.And the parts about a MIG weld having cold lap or inadequate penetration and still looking good.I (and I think we) admire your initiative and taking on a project like this.  But a trailer going over the road needs to be done RIGHT.  If it fails, there can be property damage or injuries or fatalities or all of the above.  A trailer is NOT typically a starter/first project.A welding cart often is, because the scope/scale of the project is smaller and there is typically no (or minimal) chance of a weld/fabrication failure causing a fatality.  Property damage to your own stuff if the cart fails and the machine falls and breaks, but not typically chances for fatalities.  Especially to others.Besides, a welding cart is usually darn useful and handy.  As you found out with your wooden one.    Low on funds?  Find or scrounge a steel bed frame that someone is tossing out and use that to make a metal welding cart.  You ground away the galvanization before your welded, so that was good.Your one pic of some welds showed nice even and consistent welds, so that was good.You didn't wrap the welds around the corners, so that was bad.You didn't understand that the WFS -is- the amps being used for the arc weld.  So that was bad.We're trying to encourage you, but you have to do it right.So, I say it here in plain English.STOP!Your weld that you showed -looks- nice, but if the WFS/amps was turned down low there is a big chance that the welds did NOT properly fuse into the parent material and make a proper weld with adequate penetration/fusion.  And that means the weld has to be ground out and redone.Read up, and ask questions, and practice.  After you do that for a while, -then- maybe weld the trailer project together (with some supervision or oversight).  Because if you have a poor or inadequate weld on a trailer going down the road, there is a real chance of causing damage and injury and fatalities.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Honda what was the thickness of the metal you welded on might just be me but it appears 1/4" and the welds appear to be sitting on top of the "base" trailer metal. You really needed to read up on the manual and capabilities of that 115v mig that you have! Most 115v migs are capable of 3/16" but anything over that is pushing the limits.You should have practiced on a couple of pieces before hard to make sure you have all your settings correct. Then try breaking those practice pieces to see if you got good penetration. I see almost no discoloration around the weld area meaning it the heat was too low.  If you can snap or break off the weld then you need to examine what went wrong reexamine all your settings then practice some more. If this trailer is going to be used on the road you should second guess your welds.Moonrise suggested some good link to read up on. And Sundown had  some good advice to follow.A wooden welding cart. I surprised Duanne didn't recommend one of the favorites here of making the welding cart out of old metal bed frames. The bed frames can be found around town on trash day!! It great metal for making welding carts and your getting it for free. You'll find many of the folks are at Welding Web have made their welding carts out of metal bed frame. And metal shelving from old shelves or cabinets makes a great base/bottom of the cart to rest the welder on! And yest that metal can be found on most trash days as well.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:thanks for all the great advice and yes i will read those links tomorrow. i really need to get this trailer done in less than a month but i think i have an old bed frame laying around that i could throw together real quick for a metal cart.not saying that i did it right or anything but you said if i could break the welds than they were bad but just how the toung is attached to the one peice of angle now i had to pull it around my yard over some ruts and stuff so it got jerked around pretty good and there was no signs of fatigue whatsoever.and my plan is when i get it done to load it up and pull it on some back roads hit all the bumps and ruts i can because if it can stand up to that without a problem then i'm sure it will do fine on smoothe highways and such.please don't think i am just skipping over all your advice i am taking all of it into consideration and it is great to have some people with alot of experience help me out. i will be sure to read all those links and i will see if i can't get a welding cart built in the next few days.
Reply:Originally Posted by specterHonda what was the thickness of the metal you welded on might just be me but it appears 1/4" and the welds appear to be sitting on top of the "base" trailer metal. You really needed to read up on the manual and capabilities of that 115v mig that you have! Most 115v migs are capable of 3/16" but anything over that is pushing the limits.Originally Posted by Broccoli1I would bet the trailer is 3/16ths but..... .023 solid wire
Reply:Originally Posted by hondarancher4435the welds in the pics are on 1/8th inch but i welded up the axle which is 1/4 inch
Reply:HondaI tried to be nice and polite in my first posting.  As many posters will tell you, that is NOT my normal style.You seem to have an excuse/comeback to every comment made by some very experienced welders who have tried to "steer' you in the right direction.With that said.Stop the work on the trailer.  What you're doing is unsafe and reckless.  You don't have the training/experience or the proper equipment to be building a tandem axle trailer to be used over the road.Build your mig cart.Take some welding courses at school.  Read all that you can get your hands on in the field of welding.Get your hands on some scrap material and weld it up.  Put it in the vise and try to break it.  Get some scrap pieces of 1/4" material and try it.  120v welders with .023 solid wire were not made for welding that material.The fact that you tried to weld with your volts all the way up and amps all the way down, tells me that you've already got welds in the trailer that need to be ground out.Stop being impatient and start being realistic about what your welding goals are.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIHondaI tried to be nice and polite in my first posting.  As many posters will tell you, that is NOT my normal style.You seem to have an excuse/comeback to every comment made by some very experienced welders who have tried to "steer' you in the right direction.With that said.Stop the work on the trailer.  What you're doing is unsafe and reckless.  You don't have the training/experience or the proper equipment to be building a tandem axle trailer to be used over the road.Build your mig cart.Take some welding courses at school.  Read all that you can get your hands on in the field of welding.Get your hands on some scrap material and weld it up.  Put it in the vise and try to break it.  Get some scrap pieces of 1/4" material and try it.  120v welders with .023 solid wire were not made for welding that material.The fact that you tried to weld with your volts all the way up and amps all the way down, tells me that you've already got welds in the trailer that need to be ground out.Stop being impatient and start being realistic about what your welding goals are.
Reply:i just welded up some scrap 1/4 inch it was a peice about an inch wide and 4 inches long. i welded that standing up on it's end onto a flat peice of 1/4 inch i used a large about 15 inch long adjustable wrench to test them. the first couple welds broke on the last weld i put all my body weight on the wrench even jumped on it a couple times and bent the clamp and the bottom 1/4 inch plate with no signs of movement from the weld and i only welded one 1 inch long bead on the one side i didn't go all the way around or even do the corners.
Reply:115V MIG machine and 0.023 solid wire on 1/4 inch thick steel = not welded.115V MIG machine and 0.023 solid wire with the WFS turned all the way down = not welded on anything thicker than THIN sheetmetal.  Maybe, just maybe, up to about 14 gauge thick.115V MIG machine using 0.035 FCAW wire and maxing the machine amps out on a 1/4 inch thick steel workpiece = Maybe welded using possible preheat and multi-pass.The axle connection to the trailer frame is critical, but the crossmembers are darn important too as they tie the two main frame rails together AND support the load.It's all important.Just having a welding machine doesn't mean you are a welder.  Just turning a welding machine on doesn't mean you are learning.  It's a start, as you can't learn welding just from reading, but if you don't know what you are doing or supposed to be doing then just making an arc and melting some filler may not mean you are actually learning.Are you watching the puddle of molten metal that the arc makes and how the arc digs into the metal and then the filler adds more metal into the puddle?  Not just watching the bright arc and moving along?Like I said in my first reply in this thread, your bead looked even and consistent and the weave looked nice and consistent as well.  But it doesn't look like it actually melted INTO the metal.The teacher at your school doesn't know how to weld or anything?  Find someone who does and ask them to show you or teach you.  Your dad knows how to weld but he's not there, wait until he visits and have him hopefully teach you.  Call a welding shop and ask if you can watch and ask at a not so busy time.  Post your location and maybe someone here is in the area and can help out.Many options to learning.If you say you have a mowing business and you "need this trailer to haul my equipment" then you ARE being impatient.Taking a trailer down the road is a serious business.  If the trailer breaks, there is the strong possibility of property damage (yours or some else's) or injury (your or someone else's) or death (yours or someone else's).  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:i think i am going to give a call to the some of the welding shops soon and see if they will give me any lessons or anything the company my dad worked for is close to here and he still has connections with some of the higher people there so maybe they can hook me up with some lessons.
Reply:Originally Posted by hondarancher4435i think i am going to give a call to the some of the welding shops soon and see if they will give me any lessons or anything the company my dad worked for is close to here and he still has connections with some of the higher people there so maybe they can hook me up with some lessons.
Reply:hey man u should be able to take some classes for pretty cheap over at ur local community collage there u can get some hands on learning look into some of these places also check out some of ur older friends i learned a lot from my neighbor who has been welding for 30 plus years also from my farm manager at my skool who has been a professor and also a teacher for 45 years he should me alot of tricks of the trade also just practice cuz practice duz make perfect also try some of the simple projects first and build up to the larger projects also if u need something quick for ur business try looking for trailers on craigslist i kno alot of gardners who got there start that way later agwelderold skool idealarc welderEsab multi tool Milwauake 7inch angle grinder the best of all tho the oxyacceteline set up
Reply:Honda----Good for you for trying to learn how to do something new. Where are you located? If you're close by, I'll come over with my machine and show you how to lay down some welds. I also have a spare Harbor Freight (HF) trailer and as long as you're a positive young man, you can use it for free.How much weight are you planning on carrying on this trailer? If light enough, you might consider using grade 8 bolts and bolting it together. It won't be as strong as being welded but there are thousands of HF trailers on the road with minimal welds.
Reply:Honda -I've been welding off and on for about two months (or at least practicing), and I don't think my own welds are even good enough to start doing any serious structural fabrication like a trailer.  I'm running a small 90-amp Chicago Electric fluxcore MIG unit (no gas, just the wire, only two settings for power), and have been practicing on bicycle frames, just to see if I can get the structural strength I need from my welds.  Like you, I welded together several things, then used a vise, prybar, and/or a hammer to see how well my welds took - some broke, some didn't.  Some had decent penetration, some didn't, some had too much (blew through a couple of pieces, oops!).The main thing I'm getting at here is it takes time and practice ... LOTS of practice.  I have a bunch of projects I really want to do, but being entirely self-taught, I'm not sure if everything I'm doing is right or not. (Quite frankly, being out of work, I can't afford to take classes  )  However, I do a HELL of a lot of reading on these forums and anything else I can get my hands on regarding welding.  I'm constantly asking several friends who do weld, "Hey, can you look at this?  Do you think it's okay?  What suggestions would you make to help improve this?"  (Most of the shops around my area of town don't take to newbies asking a bunch of questions ........)  My practice welds aren't real pretty, but I'm slowly learning what I need to do to make them better, and ultimately, stronger.(And btw, the rolling stand I have for my MIG is a small bicycle wheel stand on wheels, one of the kind that holds the front or rear wheel for display in a bicycle shop. Gotta find one of those bedframes this week .... )I understand you need the trailer for the business.  AGWelder has a good idea for now, though - check your local craigslist for a cheap trailer so you'll have something right NOW, and when your welding skills have improved to the point where you've finished your tandem-axle, then sell the cheap trailer off.  Best advice I can give you is this: Take your time.  Do NOT rush it, whatever you do, whatever the temptation.  If you're not sure of one or more of your welds, grind it off and do it again.  If you have to grind off everything and start over, do it.  If you have even the slightest doubt in your mind about something not being strong enough, find a way to reinforce it.  Gusset plates, diagonals, crossmembers ... whatever it takes.  Think one safety chain will be enough?  Use two, just in case, because you never know.  As these guys have pointed out, your life (or someone else's) may depend on the job you do on that trailer.  Dude, it's better to be safe now than a whole lot sorry later ....Last edited by SpyGuy; 05-03-2009 at 09:50 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIYou seem to have an excuse/comeback to every comment made by some very experienced welders who have tried to "steer' you in the right direction.