Questions before I buy a tig(HTP)

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I'm looking to buy an invert tig machine in and am currently looking at the miller, the thermal arc, and the htp units. Will be doing some sheet metal stuff and was wondering how low on the low side I'd really need. I would like to be able to do some 22ga stuff, based on 1 amp per .001" I guess thats about 28amps. Anyone run less than this? If so how low?I have a tombstone stick machine that is not very adjustable and draws a few more amps than is available from my garage panel at full tilt. I'd like to replace it with this tig machine as well. I guess the miller makes a pretty good stick machine. Thermal arc as well. I don't see anywhere that the HTP has a stick mode at all. Is this the case, no stick functionality on the htp? Any reason why not?
Reply:I've done 30 on my Miller EconoTIG but the Dynasty and Synchro series do as low as 5.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Many questions.The Miller Syncro goes down to 5 amps, the HTP goes down to 4.  Both are "beer can" thickness amperages.  Either machine will do you on the low side.  At those amperages, the most either will do is "warm" the plate on 22 ga.  You have plenty of low end on either.The HTP invertig will do stick, but you would need to buy the stinger separately.The one factor you mention, current draw, would send me toward the Invertig.  My syncro 200 is on a 60 amp circuit.  The HTP will run on a 30 amp circuit.I don't know much about the TA. Fun4Now has one and swears by it and I'm sure he will reply to give you the scoop on that machine.If you've got the big bux, go for the Miller dynasty.  Nice machine.Favorite right now is a Miller Syncro 200.Tons of tools and I blame at least one of them when things don't go right.
Reply:How about the pulser on the Dynasty for doing the thin stuff?
Reply:I have the Linoln invertec 205. I have welded aluminum down to 10 amps, (thin sheet alum. and alum. cans. I fixed some SS rings on some fishing lures using 5amps. It also has pulse and adjustable frequency. The inverters work very well. I have no idea about your HTP stick question, sorry.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I didn't see him specify aluminum or the need for AC, so a Maxstar 150 STH is a super machine for this if you're talking about just steels.
Reply:We also forgot to ask if this is hobby use or pounding industrial use.  For "non-business use" (read as at home light duty) I have started using a "super 160" AC/DC tig for 24 gauge ss with no problems.  Low end on that machine is 20 amps.  I slap a 1/16 2% thoriated tungsten (ground sharp) with a #4 cup (pure argon 11 cfm) with the base amps set at 20 and peddle my way through.  BTW before I get flamed for using a Chinese import at home...I got the whole setup used for $550 and it plasma cuts pretty well too.  My business books, however, support a whole different field outfit.  In the field my outfit consists of red (Lincoln Power MIG 350) and blue (Miller Syncrowave  200 TIG) and neither machine has caused any trouble to speak of.
Reply:are you only making sheet metal? If so you´ll be better with a MIG probablyMy Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:I have the arcmaster TA 185.  Love it.  It goes down to 5 amps.  It can weld thinner than I can.  On the high side, MINE puts out 200 amps tigging.  I have checked it with 2 different amp meters.  Works great on aluminum, carbon steel and everything else.  Comes with everything needed to weld, and inlcudes a stinger.  Stick is good up to 160 amps.  Can't speak for the others.  Inverters use a LOT less power going in.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:TA also goes down to low amperage.HTP charges *ALOT* for shipping.If I remember correctly it was closeto 200.00 and it had to go by freightcarrier not UPS.I got the TA for < 1.9k including shippingbut that deal seems to be gone. Thoughyou can still get it for <2k (not sure on shipping)My welding area is ~ 100yds from my electricalservice entrance. I am rewiring now to give mea 50A circuit. (thick copper wire=$$$ --ouch) I have run the TA on a 30A circuitand can do everything but the highest ranges.Good Luck-Almus
Reply:I have the HTP and love it. I'm near them, so I didn't have to pay shipping.Lowest you can set it to is 4 amps. It also has pulsing ability which can help out on the thin stuff.As someone said, if you are just doing sheetmetal mig would probably be easier.- John
Reply:I'd be using this machine for hobby work. Want to be able to do aluminum and some thicker structures so would like to have atleast 200amps available. Would consider 300 if I could afford it.  I don't see listed anywhere in the HTP literature anything about a scratch mode or equivilent start method, that I assume would be needed for stick. You can't lift start stick can you?Has anyone ever done any stick with the HTP that can relate how it stacks up to other machines?
Reply:Originally Posted by The Other Dave... You can't lift start stick can you?...
Reply:But you should also clarify that lift-arc is not 'required' for stick - with stick the juice is just there waiting for you to touch the workpiece, and it works the same on the HTP as on a normal stick welder.- John
Reply:Its just that in the HTP docs I've read I haven't seen any mention of a stick mode or a scratch start mode. The start settings seem to be hf or lift arc. Neither of which seems appropriate for stick? I've never seen an htp so maybe its there but they didnt write anything about it in the promotional literature or something.
Reply:There is a selector switch on the front panel that selects between tig 2t, tig something else, stick, or program mode.In stick mode it works just like a normal stick welder. I'm going to go take a nice photo of it for you.....- John
Reply:and here it is.... Attached Images
Reply:Runchman, You make me happy.
Reply:I just know what it's like when contemplating a purchase and wanting to read every single item of information ever written about a product You aren't in a NW chicago suburb are you?? - John
Reply:No, I'm in an igloo in the great white north. Canada.
Reply:Oh, too bad, you could come and try mine out.- John
Reply:Mac,I wanted to comment on your reply. In my opinion it would be stupid to imagine that someone would not want to weld aluminum. If you have a tig unit or a GTAW unit to be more accurate, at some point you are going to want to try it out of curiosity or necessity. Why anyone would WANT to buy a unit without HF or AC is beyond me. Now, that is not to say that in the old days I couldn't TIG with an air cooled torch hooked up to a Lincoln tombstone using scratch start and no HF and no foot controller, but it wasn't as fun to use. And I never WANTED it, it was just what was available when I was in college and spent all my money on lab fees. Having said that, yes, you are correct, he had not specified aluminum or AC capabilities. That's my .02 cents.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Guess I'm stupid for only pointing out a machine that costs a third as much as the other one, and making it clear it was a viable option only he wasn't going to do aluminum.I guess Miller and Lincoln are also stupid for making these machines.  Don't they know everyone that is thinking about a TIG is going to want to do aluminum?
Reply:Nothing stupid at all about pointing out alternatives that someone might not have thought about. I started with just the harbor freight cheapo dc-only tig without a pedal, and you know what, compared to the NO welder I had before, it was really cool for the price. Had I been on a tight budget I'd probably still be using it today.- John
Reply:Mac,No sir, I did not say YOU were stupid. I said it would be stupid to imagine it. And companies do make those units and sell them to people who later wish they would have bought a better machine with greater duty cycles and more capabilities. I liken it to the guy who has gotten by for several years with an air cooled tig but has many times wished he had a water cooled unit.You can say anything you want to justify your recommendation. I clearly stated I was expressing my opinion. My opinion was based on personal experience.And the argument is now pointless as The Other Dave has stated he wants to do aluminum and possibly 300amps if affordable. I haven't seen any cheapos up in that range lately. I concede that your professional education and experience trumps my opinions.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brainHey Joker, looks like your in this one just to stir things up. Mac stated what you are picking apart after Daves first post and before he stated the possibility of AL and 300 amps. Mac is a very respectable member of at least three forums that I also frequent and his input greatly contributes to all three.
Reply:I bought the HTP Invertig 201 and its a great machine.  I read in one of the posts that the Stick electrode holder is separate however I don't think that is the case at least not anymore. Mine came with everything, foot pedal, stick electrode holder, gas valve etc.Its a good machine and well built you would not be making a mistake with it..03 cents worthMichael
Reply:Well I'm not real impressed with the price with the prices Im getting from HTP right now. With a few little accesories the cost ends up being as much as what I could get a dynasty (just the machine) for. The president of the company is on holidays until the end of the month, maybe he'd be able to cut me a better deal.  I hate paying the advertised rates.I see IOC has the TA 185 in stock again for 2k shipped in the lower 48. I might just do that. It seems to get good reviews everywhere. Can anyone comment on the quality of the torch and foot pedal that comes with the 185?I'd like like to get the htp but the price difference means I'd have to wait another month or two have the spare cash around. I'm not always the most patient.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joker11Mac,No sir, I did not say YOU were stupid. I said it would be stupid to imagine it. ...
Reply:I have the HTP 201. Jeff made me a decent deal on it.  Send him an email directly. I got conflicting answers from his sales girls. Jeff took care of it. I would look at the Thermal arc unit before I would get a PT185.IMHO Inverter is the way to go. At least for us hobby welders. They draw less current and take up less room.Look at   http://www.asedeals.com/firepower_tig.html This is a rebadged thermal arc.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:Hey there . I am seriously considering HTP TIG also .I know how much it cost , I know how much I have to pay taxes for it .What I don't know is how much I will have to pay Canada customs duties ? I am from Montreal by the way.Can any one help ?
Reply:My understanding is that there is no duty on welders and similar industrial equipment in general.I believe the unit is made in Italy by Stel though, if this is the case there may be some duty due to its place of manufacture. I've read some of the Canadian Border Services documentation about this, but without being a lawyer or an expert figuring anything out for sure seems just about impossible.
Reply:As far as I know Canada USA and Mexico have NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) ,which means that any product made in any of the mentioned countries is free of any duties .Which means If we buy Miller or Lincoln , there is no duties because these machines are made in North America .We know that Millers are made in USA and some Lincolns are made in Mexico. Any other machine with different place of origin have to pay duties .There is way around this .If HTP import these machines in pieces and then assemble them in USA , then place of origin is USA.Same happened with Dodge Sprinter ,this is basically Mercedes .To avoid import duties ,they import them in pieces and assemble them in USA .They change front clip and name and voila , Sprinter . http://tollroadsnews.info/artman/pub...cle_1178.shtmlMe too are waiting for Jeff Nolan to return from vacation ,then we will know for sure .If he declare that machines are assembled in USA there is going to be no duties.For sure when they rebadge the machines , there is some work to be done , performed by nortamerican workers.Maybe this can qualifie as USA origin . I am not lawyer but I am cautious.
Reply:Take a good hard look at the ThermalArc 185.  Its got a SWEET soft arc.  Much nicer than my Dynasty 200.ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:Originally Posted by DirtyLittleSecret Take a good hard look at the ThermalArc 185. Its got a SWEET soft arc. Much nicer than my Dynasty 200.
Reply:Originally Posted by YadrancoIt is very rare to find somebody that have both TA 185 and Dynasty 200 DX.Which one you are going to sell first ?Which one you bought first? People usualy crave what they don't have .I was allready looking at TA 185 and trying to order it from few companys in USA , but nobody would ship it over border , it was like , I was beging them...Please take my money... they didn't bother.This is not profesional .Meanwhile I saved more money and pass level of price of TA 185.Do not get me wrong I like TA 185 it have positive revievs from owners , just I guess it is not destine for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by YadrancoIt is very rare to find somebody that have both TA 185 and Dynasty 200 DX....
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702At the Hobart board (www.hobartwelders.com), there's a guy in NM, George "Sundown" who sold me his Maxstar 150 STH and bought a T/A 185.  Then he sold that and got the Dynasty 200 DX.  So, you can go over there and PM him or start a thread and get his opinions, too.
Reply:Fact that you sold Dynasty is big surprise for me .I would expect opposite .I am like you read listen and learn what other say about welders .I do not have any experience in TIG .Based on internet talking Dynasty is way to go ,I am glad that I can hear opposite . I had feeling that all this hype about Dynasty is big balloon that every one is blowing and nobody know when it will explode .I believe in this forum there is one member who is saving money for Dynasty and currently have TA 185(Fun4now) .I just hope that he read your post before he make move towards Dynasty .Like I said people crave what they don’t have From whom did you get your Arcmaster 185, and when was that?Also like you I believe in Miller I am Miller man .I have MM210 with spool gun for aluminum .I am building Hummer replica truck in my spare time .Since truck is made of aluminum (1/8) I had to purchase welder with aluminum capabilities .Guys from Praxair suggested MM210 with spool gun .I am very happy with it, or I was until I saw what TIG can do. There was contractor at my work who have Esab Multimaster .This machine have TIG MIG and STICK .First time I was able to compare Miller to some other machine .Shortly said Esab is equal to Miller specially with Esab price, you can get this machine for around 2500$.Only there is one thing that I don’t like Tig is DC only and is bigger in size than Miller.Inverter is way to go, that is the future. Somebody will say Transformer machines will last forever .That is maybe true but inverters are just 15 years or so old, and they are very capable .I wander how transformer machines look like after 15 years of development , we can’t even compare that .One thing I don’t understand, how did you pull 200 amps from 185 amps machine?If every Arcmaster is like that, I am very interested in it .What is the way to measure this?http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...DSC_0007-1.jpg
Reply:Ordered my 201 today. Should have it around 3rd week of june. Will keep everyone updated.
Reply:Did you E-mail them or phone them .I am waiting for Jeff to return from vacation too ,so I can order mine also.
Reply:I dealt with Diana at htp via email and phone. She didnt seem to have as much flexibility on price as Jeff has, but still pretty fair. Service was good.
Reply:Congrats on your purchase. You will be happy with it. I am very pleased with mine.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:I just talked with Jeff Noland and ordered mine too .I am fed up of looking, now I am in buying mood. They are out of stock so, little more waiting.
Reply:Well you'll both have to report back on how you like the machine. As a fellow HTP 201 owner, I agree you'll be satisfied.One thing I'm curious of - in the htp catalog I think it said something about the 201 being able to 'store' multiple setups, that you could recall at a later time.The manual makes no mention of this, nor can I figure out from the panel how you'd do it. If you find it is possible, please report.I'm headed out to the garage right now to do some stick welding with mine....- John
Reply:I like my HTP 201 very much but it's my only experience with tig. Summers are very busy around here so I haven't had much time with it lately.   I could be wrong but I thought that the documentation for the 201 mentioned lift start for stick
Reply:How long is the power cord on the ArcMaster 185? The only 220 I have in the house is in the laundry room right next to the garage. I could just unplug the washer when I was welding if the power cord is long enough.Justin
Reply:How long is the power cord on the ArcMaster 185? I've got 220 only in the laundry room next to the garage. If it had a long enough cord, I could unplug the washer when welding. I looked in the Thermal Arc manual and it didn't say the cord length.Justin
Reply:Well, you'll probably need to make an adapter cord anyway because I'll assume you are referring to the dryer receptacle?  So just make the adapter cord however long you need to also function as a useful extension cord.Use a dryer plug and the welder-compatible connector on the other end and you're done.  Home Despot should have all the parts you need.
Reply:Well I got a local company to price match the $1999 price from Indian Oxygen. This will be great for me since I can take my machine in for warranty locally. I'm off to buy my first TIG Regards,Justin