Newby building a fence

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1st post I hope I am not over my head in pro welding forum. I am ok with my hands - soldering,  working on cars ect but have never welded. I have a quarter acre behind the house I would like to turn into a corral. As best I can figure I need about 420 feet of fence. It will be built out of pipe 2 or 3 rail.I have purchased what I believe to be a good gas rig but have not had a chance to use it yet. Can I newby learn in a fairly short period of time how to gas weld this fence and save purchasing an electric welder and having to deal with a 220v extension cord out to the middle of a field. Or is it going to be difficult or time consuming enough I need to suck up an buy welder. Working on a budget here. Could buy a welder if I have to but would prefer to put that purchase off until later. Thanks, Don
Reply:If by gas you mean o/a welding I think it would be a slow process,you could use a decent sized 110 volt flux-core wire welder alot faster.Or stick would be faster too but like you say you would have to have 220 out there or a generator welder.Check on the mig forum here for people answering and at hobart weldtalks mig forum and you'll get some good advice.Last edited by stevinator; 01-11-2008 at 11:31 PM.pro-level dumpster diver                                     Hobart 125EZ
Reply:Stevinator, Thanks for the response.Would mig work - the pipe has fairly thick walls (could be wrong but I thought mig 110v was limited) Will mig work? The one person from around here I have been able to ask said don't go with mig due to the wind. Most days working will have anywhere from a breeze to a strong wind this time of year.Don
Reply:Should be a fun adventure.  You can do it.  At least by your last weld you will have learned to weld with o/a.  There are engine driven welder, underhood welder and the ready welder.  Also, generators and 110v units.Might do a cost analysis on how much Oxygen and Acetylene used vs.  purchasing a machine.  There is not much welding in the fencing however, learning might suck up some tanks.  Pior to beginning, work on out of postion welding and also think of ways to secure the pipe so you can weld.  O/A is a two hand operation so it is difficult to tack and weld without the object being fixed.I use a 110v stick for stuff like that, too.  A DC inverter.  You can propably find one for less than 150 bucks.Last edited by tapwelder; 01-11-2008 at 11:40 PM.
Reply:That's why you go with the flux-core wire so you can use it outside. Most 110 wire welders will weld 3/16'' thickness and I doubt the fence rail will come close to that for wall thickness.If it does it's a heavier duty fence than I'm thinking of,most of our gas mains are .156 wall just over an 1/8''.Last edited by stevinator; 01-11-2008 at 11:49 PM.pro-level dumpster diver                                     Hobart 125EZ
Reply:You can definitly weld it with O/A if that is what you have. If by pipe you mean sch 40 it will be slow but if you use a larger welding tip it wont be to bad. I would sugest sitting down in the garage or out back and just spend some time welding on the benc. Try mounting some of your pipe like you will be welding in the field and burn away. Remember to size the tip to your metal thickness and thing will go better. Also be sure to use a nutral flame and that will also help a little. One other consideration gas is very pricy so it might not be any cheaper than buying a small 110v welder but your results will be basicly the same. You can also use propain with ox and that is a lot cheaper but not as hot. My last personal project if you want to call it that was a utility body frame for my truck and I gas welded if becase it was to windy to TIG and to thin for stick and I was waiting on consumibles from Florida. The welds were very clean and looked like TIG the only trouble was a little warping from the heat and thin metal. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you develope a specific question. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:Offrdfun,Propane for welding???
Reply:with all due respect: i would opt for a low dollar mig (flux-core) or rent one..gas powered stick welder would be easyer to use in the fieldas said before O/A would work, but slow going.  if you have never gas welded before. it will take some time to learn.with cutting and welding you'll use twice the gases
Reply:You can always use some kind of wind barrier when using a mig outside. A tarp would do! I agree with offrdfun73, gas is a little pricey compared to a cheap 110v welder.  There are cheap weldes on the market, but they still work. Maybee just not as long. But for all you need it for that sounds like the way to go.
Reply:You can definitely do your fence project with an O-A welding rig.  It will be slow, in comparison to using an arc welding process.  Once you're proficient, I'd estimate that it'll take 5 minutes to set up and torch cut each joint; then 10 minutes to tack up and weld, using O-A.  I'll second an earlier recommendation that you try welding in a shop, before getting going out in the field.  you'll have to develop some proficiency in out-of-position welding(vertical up and overhead), which shouldn't take more than a couple days practice.  If you've never welded before, you'll have to weld each pipe joint from the bottom to the top, on each side of the pipe.One advantage of doing this with O-A, is that you'll be able to cut your pipe in the field, and 'fishmouth' the pipe ends for a good joint fit-up.  Practice doing this as well.  Hopefully your welding rig included a cutting torch attachement.  Tight joint fit-up will make your welding a whole lot easier, trust me.  O-A welding may also save you some time and effort in comparison to doing this in a shop and then carting the pieces into the field; then discovering that you need to make minor adjustments in order to fit up to each fence post...You may still need to rig a wind-break of some kind.  If there's any breeze blowing, you may have troubles with the air stealing the heat from your welds.  You may also see a lot of scaling, if the shielding gas provided by the O-A flame is prematurely blown away from the weld puddle.  This is not an issue with stick welding or flux-cored MIG welding.Everyone recommending mig welding this project seems to have ignored your concerns with getting power to an arc welder.  Depending on where your closest outlet is located, you may have to spend quite a bit of cash on a suitable extension cable for an arc welder.  Your other option is to rent/buy an engine driven welder.  A modest protable welder, like a Miller bluestar, will set you back over a grand, new.You've got to balance the cost vs. time required and decide what works best in your circumstances.  I think your O-A rig is the best solution if time isn't an issue, and you're looking to keep the inital cost outlay low. Originally Posted by InTheSticks1st post I hope I am not over my head in pro welding forum. I am ok with my hands - soldering,  working on cars ect but have never welded. I have a quarter acre behind the house I would like to turn into a corral. As best I can figure I need about 420 feet of fence. It will be built out of pipe 2 or 3 rail.I have purchased what I believe to be a good gas rig but have not had a chance to use it yet. Can I newby learn in a fairly short period of time how to gas weld this fence and save purchasing an electric welder and having to deal with a 220v extension cord out to the middle of a field. Or is it going to be difficult or time consuming enough I need to suck up an buy welder. Working on a budget here. Could buy a welder if I have to but would prefer to put that purchase off until later. Thanks, Don
Reply:I would go rent a Bobcat or Ranger and get a big box of 6013 rods and get it done in a day or two.  Probably wouldn't cost too much if you could get the rig pretty cheap.  The other benefit would be that you would have generator power from the welder to run grinders and what not.Contact me for any metal polishing needs you may have, my avatar is a pic of a standard, painted fire axe that I ground, sanded polished and buffed to a mirror finish.
Reply:Wow lots of good advice here. I am on break at work or would reply more fully. Just wanted to say thanks. Don
Reply:If you know someone with a small portable generator just plug in a 110 wire welder with flux-core and go at it.You can get a good small wire unit for under 300 and you would always be glad to have it around later.Would be the quickest to learn for a beginner also.I think you can use 100' ext cord if it is 12/3 then you would have to go bigger and that gets pricey too.pro-level dumpster diver                                     Hobart 125EZ
Reply:There is a fence project with pictures on hobart weldtalk in the projects forum. All done with a 110 flux-core welder.pro-level dumpster diver                                     Hobart 125EZ
Reply:Originally Posted by txfireguy2003I would go rent a Bobcat or Ranger and get a big box of 6013 rods and get it done in a day or two.  Probably wouldn't cost too much if you could get the rig pretty cheap.  The other benefit would be that you would have generator power from the welder to run grinders and what not.
Reply:What about building them in panels?  When I did it I built panels that could be bolted together.  I used a jig and welded them all up near the shop with a plug in 220v ac buzz box and it worked great.  Maybe you could borrow one for a few days?  Buy one really cheap?I like O/A, I use it for all kinds of stuff, but when it comes to sticking stuff, especially thick stuff, together quickly, it's not the best..
Reply:The fence/joint design would also be a big deciding factor for me if I had limited equipment available. You could easily spend half a lifetime switching from cutting tip to welding tip, changing reg pressures, etc.. A torch and a stick is the optimum set up.
Reply:Tapwelder Yes you can weld tith a propain and ox setup . A lot of wrecking yards back in the day would haul around a 200 gal tank and a bunch of ox tanks and guys would cut up a car. It is cheaper but it does not get as hot so it is a little slower. They make special tips for cutting. The preaheat orfices are basicly bigger to acomidate the lower BTU content of propain, Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:A lot of wrecking yards back in the day would haul around a 200 gal tank and a bunch of ox tanks and guys would cut up a car.
Reply:Thanks for the great info. I have worked all day and kids function tonight is why so long posting a reply to this .Tapwelder, - thanks great idea on cost analysis but I have no idea of how to estimate the cost of the gas or any other consumables for that matter. Thanks for reminding me the gas could be expensive though. Could sway me to the electric. Although that will run up my electric bill some. No idea if would be significant on the electric bill.Txfireguy2003 never even thought of renting  - Duh. I will call around on Monday.A_DAB_will_do thanks for the time estimates I realize they will vary greatly from person to person but at least now I have something to go with and  help decide if electric is worth it. guess the real question though is how much time would I save per weld if I do the fluxcore. thanks again to all who gave advice. I am sure I will have questions again. A lot here to think about. For some weird reason I am starting to get excited about this fence. Thanks , Don
Reply:Couple of good developments. One friend I was talking to has a 110v flux core welder. - I am going to go over there and try it out to see what I think and may buy one (not his) if I like it. A different friend is doing some fabrication work and just bought a  very nice plasma cutter. If I want to haul the pipe to his shop I can use it to cut the saddles(right term?) in the ends. Not sure if it is worth the hauling but will try a few and learn something either way. A 3rd friend (confused yet?) is supplying the "pipe"  and I am going to go get it next week. reason I say “pipe” it turns out they are pump barrels. Dont know how much difference it will make yet They are "low grade stainless" according to him but they cut them with a torch on a regular basis so I assume will be similar to regular steel. I’ve seen them and they look like pipe to me. Also will mention the 220 for my dryer is next to the nearest 110v outlet. Both are about 150 to 200 ft from the farthest corner of the fence. I got the idea extension cords are bad but guess with a good one I would be fine. Might have to build the 220v cord and get the idea the cost of that could be significant too.Thanks Don
Reply:I would look on Craig's List classifieds for an inexpensive used generator with 4000 or more watts, then run whatever 220v welding machine you like and power your 110v cutting/grinding tools with it too.   A used generator would be cheaper than buying 200' of 220v and 110v ext cord and you may find other uses for it after you're done with it, or just sell it for what you paid for it and you're even.www.craigslist.orgMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Sandy I have welded with it. It works the guy who tought me to use a torch when I was a kid 9 or 10 he ran his on 20# propain tanks for the thin stuff like mower decks. That is what he tought me to weld on. I do not use it now for the simple reaso I dont use O/A that often I normaly use the plasma or air arc. Gas cost ot much here. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:Pro-pain is correct if you try welding with it.  I have tried it a couple to times.  It seems to take a oxidizing flame to get a welding temp.  At least I cook the metal.I wouldn't recomment it for welding especially for a newby.  I use it all the time for cutting, however I switch over to Acetylene for welding.  InTheSticksA couple of years ago a member, woughtnharv, posted picks of a pipe rail.  He multiple pieces of 1/2 inch pipe.  Took the piece and hammered it to fit the post, the welded it to the post.  The opposite side will form a saddle to accept the rail.  I have never tried this method. However it would take a lot of critical welding and joint finishing out of the project. Perhaps this could be an option.  I have done several pipe rails and a highly time consuming part is cutting and notching.  Depending on quality, time spent cleaning can actually exceed cutting and notching.  So plan wisely if you decide to rent.  It could easily take more than 1-2 days.Last edited by tapwelder; 01-13-2008 at 11:25 PM.
Reply:You can use O/A fine fore that, it will be a little slower and require some cleanup afterwards if painted, you can also use 110v flux core mig which would be fast and has little problems with high winds it would be pretty fast, and depending on if you want to paint the rail may not require cleanup.Originally Posted by offrdfun73Sandy I have welded with it. It works the guy who tought me to use a torch when I was a kid 9 or 10 he ran his on 20# propain tanks for the thin stuff like mower decks. That is what he tought me to weld on. I do not use it now for the simple reaso I dont use O/A that often I normaly use the plasma or air arc. Gas cost ot much here.
Reply:I would look for a used engine driven stick welder. There are some older Miller's like the Bluestar 1E and 2E that can be found fairly cheap. I for sure wouldn't go the cord route for that kind of distance, too much $$$$. I built a 220v 50ft 10/3 and I've got over $120 in it (twistlock plugs and a pigtail adapter for dryer circuit use).HH 187Miller Bluestar1EAHP AlphaTig 200X
Reply:ah hell, just tig it. LOL.
Reply:Dont have much advise about the welder, but these tools make it easier to cut a clean edge to weld to.  www.shur-kut.com
Reply:If your welding stainless that changes allot of things your not going to be able to weld it up as cheap as you were probably hoping. As others have stated go rent your self a welder for this job you will avoid allot of headache.