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My Background: No welding experience, nada. Local Community College requires 4 hours/day 3 days/week for 2 months. I can't do that, but I am a quick learner and the local trailer building shop will let me look over their welder's shoulder, for a couple hours (on slow days).My Goals: Hobby welder, with the eventual ability to weld 1/4" steel (e.g. trailers).It's possible to run 240V to my garage, but I'd like to keep startup costs down.I've done quite a bit of research, and have narrowed it down to these choices:1. Lincoln AC/DC 255 + 240V now, and learn TIG later2. Lincoln Invertec V155 (or Miller Maxstar 150) now, 240V later3. Everlast PowerUltra 250P now, 240V later4. Forget all this Stick/TIG crap, you need a Millermatic 211!Here's my question: which machine is the best for me? Oh, also when voting, please give your reason for your decision. Much Appreciated!Last edited by RhymesWithBob; 03-18-2011 at 10:38 AM.Reason: Added request for rationale behind vote.
Reply:Honestly stay far away from everlast.you will never learn on a unit that don't work.
Reply:Originally Posted by tim7091Honestly stay far away from everlast.you will never learn on a unit that don't work.
Reply:Originally Posted by DiabolicZThat being said, you may want to stay away from Lincoln too. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=51168http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=50674I love how people are so quick knock on some welders, and pretend like EVERY company doesn't have it's own share of problems.
Reply:Originally Posted by RhymesWithBobThose links aren't very encouraging. I had been tending towards Lincoln only because my LWS is an official dealer/distributor... more to think about.
Reply:So I guess you'd vote for the Millermatic 211 then?
Reply:Originally Posted by RhymesWithBobSo I guess you'd vote for the Millermatic 211 then?
Reply:If your goal is to fabricate things made out of 1/8 inch thick steel or thicker, then I would buy a used AC/DC transformer stick welder, and run the 220V circuit. Most real welders need 220V anyway, especially to weld thicker materials. One advantage of this plan is that these welders are inexpensive; if you buy it used you can probably sell it for about what you paid for it.If your goal includes thinner materials, you will be better off with a 220V MIG.A mixed strategy would be a 220V stick welder for thicker material, and a 110V MIG for thinner material. That should cover all of your steel welding needs, without spending a lot of money.TIG is probably the hardest form of welding to learn, so not the best place to start, in my view. I had been welding with oxy-acetylene for a while, so that made it easier to learn to TIG.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:I agree with raferguson.How close is your dryer outlet to your garage? Self and others ran extension cords for years to power 220 machines (not maxed out of course). Run the 220 anyway. Air compressors etc can use it too. It's a good investment.How much do you have to spend? For utter reliability, get a transformer stick machine. I and many others have the Lincoln, but adjustability would lead me to try a Hobart Stickmate if I had to do it again. Stick is versatile and a great learning tool. Works well outdoors, and transformer machines often outlive their first owners! For sheet metal, a small/medium gas MIG is in order. Hobart, Lincoln or Miller work fine.Many auto body shops have these because portability is handy and there is no reason to buy more machine than you need. They also last for many years and (you'll see a pattern here!) are often kept by owners who have more advanced machines. There is no reason to sample less-common brands for your first machines. A couple of malfunctioning Precision TIGs make a good argument for avoiding that model, that is all. I don't experiment when I want to get work done, and when you are learning to weld you don't need the distraction of a questionable machine. Buy stuff you can keep for decades, and the cost per year becomes trivial. I don't do "early adoption" of welders, cars, trucks, etc. Let someone else fry theirs and I'll learn from THEIR experience. Also, while all electronic devices can malfunction, two posts on bad Precision TIGs aren't really relevant to the brand as a whole or company support.
Reply:farmall, thanks for your comments, they're golden! I was actually thinking of the air compressor angle last night.Originally, I was set to buy a Lincoln AC 225 off of craigslist because of its reputation, and I had fully intended to give it to my grandson (my SON is 13 now). The only thing that stopped me was that the dryer's circuit is only rated to 30 amps, so I didn't want to "experiment" with the buzzbox's duty cycle and melt the dryer home wiring. That lead to more research, and the other options that I listed above.My approved budget is ~$1500 but I can go up slightly if needed.Is this the Hobart you were referring to above?http://www.hobartwelders.com/product...lx235ac-160dc/Last edited by RhymesWithBob; 03-18-2011 at 12:14 PM.
Reply:Hey RWBob,Since you indicate you are going to "hobby" weld, & perhaps enhance your work environment, I would strongly recommend the Miller 211, or better yet, the 250/252. You can, later, add a spoolgun to do aluminum & have quite a versatile unit to do most anything. Just some mental fodder to contemplate "down-the-road" projects/materials you may want to do.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I would hold off on anything Everlast, just give them a couple more years and see how they fair. Diabolicz comments do not apply so disregard them.Learning on your own can be a tough challenge for someone and having someone teach you can speed things up for you but only if the teacher knows what they are doing. If not then bad habits can be passed on setting you back or giving you a false sense.I would start off buy learn to stick weld. It is the simply least expensive way of starting. Thermal Arc has a model 161s inverter welder that also has lift start tig and I've seen them going for $640 on ebay. This unit will run off of 110/220v and only weights about 14 lbs. It is a DC machine no AC, you don't need AC. If you make an adapter this unit along with any other inverter would have no problem running of that cicuit.To me mig is a crutch for some people, they run to it because they don't want to spend the time to learn and develop their welding skills plus they get instant results and gratification learning to put down beads in a couple of hours. This is a false sense of security though, it takes time to master any process and to be able to do a sound weldment. When I went to school there were students putting down nice beads on 3/16" plate using 300 amp migs and one after another failing the bend test. Mig is a cold process and in generally is not used for structual or high pressure welding.One thing you can do is post your location and see if possibly someone is near you that can help.
Reply:Years ago I use to scream stick, stick, stick. But, I have aged and mello'd some. I would buy a miller 211 and an O/A set up and not look back. You have the ability to weld everything a hobby welder could dream of. You may have some limitations when you do aluminum, but considering you are just hobbying then you can manage. As far as steel is concerned, there is not a better setup for ease and viability for any welding even up to the occational 1/2 inch welding. Take the rest of your money and burn metal and wire learning how to make sound welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jay OI would hold off on anything Everlast, just give them a couple more years and see how they fair. Diabolicz comments do not apply so disregard them.
Reply:My vote goes to the Miller 211....extremely versatile. I'll probably end up with one....someday.Hobart Handler 140Everlast PowerMTS 200SHypertherm Powermax30
Reply:I think you need a hobart stickmate, the AC/DC model...They're great, I love mine. Its good for thin steel (I can do down to 14 gauge with 3/32 6013) and who knows how thick one could go with it. And, I got mine for $431 new. I highly recommend it.[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Originally Posted by LanseI think you need a hobart stickmate, the AC/DC model...They're great, I love mine. Its good for thin steel (I can do down to 14 gauge with 3/32 6013) and who knows how thick one could go with it. And, I got mine for $431 new. I highly recommend it.
Reply:Originally Posted by DiabolicZLincoln is a great company. I was just pointing out not to listen to the people who instantly jump on the "Don't buy that Everlast garbage" band wagon. Every company has problems, and it is foolish to think otherwise. That being said, I am not voting in your poll simply to stay unbiased. I have a Lincoln Precision Tig 185. I would be lying if I said I wasn't going to get rid of it due to the mentioned problems above.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardYou are in no way unbiased. You are concerned, worried, and not unbiased. Just saying. To get rid of a functioning machine because some of the same model name have an issue is ignorant at best.
Reply:Let's not clutter the original posters thread!Yes, that's the Stickmate I had in mind, and the extra DC amperage plus the adjustability over the Lincoln are pluses. MIGs are handy, vital for thin sheet metal, but you can switch between stick electrodes in a second, they work better outdoors, the stick machines are less complex, and you can literally "feel" the metal you are putting down. No gas, you can clip on extra lead at will, and did I mention reliable?If you adopt a purchasing strategy, you can do well. It's easy to lurk and end up with ample equipment.For example, run the 220 line first. 220 goes with everything.Then grab the Stickmate. Make simple practice station where you can stand and weld plate in different positions. Tack the test coupons/pieces on and have at it.After your are very comfortable with horizontal and vertical welds, move to overhead.Burn a lot of rod.Meantime, you will have read and learned more about welding, and can buy a MIG at your convenience. You'll have time to afford "more" MIG, and since you cannot turn on amps you don't have that can be a good thing.If you want a good OA setup, the Smith Toughcut is a great value at around 200 bucks online. Made in USA too. Throw the fecal goggles that come with it in the trash and buy a full tinted face shield like the basic Jackson units.Buy a SIX inch grinder, which lets you use wonderful and happiness-producing SIX inch cutting wheels. Radnor wheels work well.Post pics of what you weld for commentary, READ and watch videos like those on the Miller site, and happy welding.Last edited by farmall; 03-19-2011 at 02:47 AM.
Reply:I would vote Lincoln, see sig.Hobby welding- the Millermatic is the best choice on your list, and given your budget, the smartest choice.Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:My thoughts I've bought no name welders.its a gamble.buy from a known company.really who would want drive around in a car with a guy who started driving yesterday or someone who has Ben around the block.I had a airco never had a problem.I really like the miller
Reply:I would like to know what you want to weld and how often you intend doing it.Last edited by Fat Bastard; 03-19-2011 at 01:26 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardI would like to know what you want to weld and how often you intend doing it.
Reply:For the average hobbiest, I'd say you usually can't go wrong with a good 220v mig. The MM211 is probably one of the most versitile out on the market allowing you the ability to do up to 1/8" with portability on 110v and up to 3/8" on 220v as well as the ability to do some alum if you add the spoolgun. That said, I could see reasons for going to a bigger machine in some cases.As said above, a good basic stick machine would give you the ability to do thicker steel. You can usually find AC ones dirt cheap used, and most will run forever. AC/DC machines can also be had at good prices used, but you need to be more patient. An AC/DC machine would also allow you to learn basic scratch start DC tig down the road if you felt the need.Tig as mentioned is usually the toughest to learn, and most that want tig have a definate goal they are working towards. They want to do alum or need the precision for thin steel or Stainless. I'd leave that till you have a need and then strongly suggest looking at local votec's for a tig class to help shorten the learning curve..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganOriginally Posted by yorkiepapHey RWBob,Since you indicate you are going to "hobby" weld, & perhaps enhance your work environment, I would strongly recommend the Miller 211, or better yet, the 250/252. You can, later, add a spoolgun to do aluminum & have quite a versatile unit to do most anything. Just some mental fodder to contemplate "down-the-road" projects/materials you may want to do.Denny
Reply:Yeah, that's a bit out of my range. My budget is for everything: 240V, welder, gear(helmet, gloves etc).
Reply:Guys, I have the opportunity to get a "Miller Bobcat 225G Plus" for $1200. It comes with the cart, plus 100' leads, engine has 900 hours (was on a work truck), and was serviced by the Miller Service Center in town last year. Assuming the welder and generator look in decent shape, should I get this welder? I'm pretty handy around small engines, so I'm not worried about the generator part of it.Oh, and I do need an emergency generator, so that's another bonus.
Reply:Out of the welder generator machines thoughs are one of ther loudest. So you need to take your neighbors into account here. You never did post your location. I'd still consider an inverter and they even have inverter migs like the one from Esab.Last edited by Jay O; 03-21-2011 at 12:05 PM.Reason: add more info
Reply:I live in a pretty rural part of North Georgia so I wouldn't be bothering any neighbors. There are more cows around here than people.However, I do like my peace and quiet though, so unless the guy really comes down in price I won't be getting the Bobcat.If I was to get a MIG, it'd be the Millermatic 211. Esabs look very tempting, but the 211's flexibility with the input voltage is going to come in handy.
Reply:You work on small engines, so you could mod the Bobcat with an effective muffler (perhaps using a flex coupling from a recent salvaged car exhaust, they have some nice components nowadays) and Dynamat the sheet metal to quiet it down.
Reply:Over the past 9 months, I got the teardrop trailer mostly done (the local trailer shop built the frame).That's kept me distracted, and kept my "hobby" budget low.Anywho, to bring this thread to a proper close, I'll be picking up a new Millermatic 211 tomorrow from my LWS. I contemplated buying it online, but after shipping it'd be only a few bucks more expensive if I bought it locally. I figure that extra $40 is for the 30 minutes or so of questions I'll be asking the guy.Thanks to all who voiced their opinions.
Reply:Pic of finished trailer would be nice.
Reply:A couple of months ago, I would have said forget the TIG for now a buy a :Used $200 - $400 Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Stick Welder (230 volt), and aUsed $200 - $400 Lincoln, Miller. Hobart 140 MIG (110 volt),but... recently Thermal Arc has a introduced some 3-in-1 machines that do it all - Stick, Mig and TIG - check out their new Fabricator line:Thermal Arc 181i: 30 - 180 amps MIG, Stick and TIG - all DC only. (about $820)Input: 230 Volts AC @ 40 amps max for MIG & Stick and 25 Amps max for TIGOutput: MIG 180 amps @ 20%, Stick 175 amps @ 20%, Lift TIG 175 Amps @ 25%Here's the owners manual: http://thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads/DocLib_4796_0-5191.pdfWant more Power? Need a lot fatter wallet!Thermal Arc 252i: 5 - 250 amps MIG, Stick and TIG - all DC only (about $2,300)Input: 230 Volts AC @ 40 amps max for MIG, Stick and TIGOutput: MIG 250 amps @ 40%, Stick 230 amps @ 40%, Lift TIG 250 Amps @ 40%Here's some information: http://thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads/Doc...es_11-9-11.pdfSo yeah, like even with good buys on Craiglist, say $300 for an AC/DC stick welder and say $300 for a MIG, that still leaves you with no TIG and your not likely to get that for $300! Thus, in your shoes I'd look real hard at the at NEW Fabricator 181i with 3-year warranty at around $820. Free autodark helmet deal is on at some online dealer now too.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Go 220 volt , use the dryer 30 amp is plenty . Get a 250 amp AC/DC Lincoln , Miller , P&H ,or Hobart single phase machine . Look around from 100-500 dollars . In time get a 60 to 100 amp service , you can do everything with them stick , gouge , mig with a LN-25 or 12VS , find a HI Freq for Tig . Much better OCV for stick than any buzz box , the Toumbstone is king !!! John
Reply:You should talk to Milkerman who has both a Miller 211 and a Thermal Arc 181i.Last edited by Rick V; 12-07-2011 at 06:30 PM.Reason: spell erroRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:I have the V155s. Here is a reviewhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=21633Good welder, will not take a foot pedal. I bought a used V160S and love it for portable tig.DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Lean stick first, it's harder and will make you a more verstile welder.Lincoln Weld Pak100Lincoln Weld Pak 140 HDLincoln Weld Pak 175Lincoln Precision Tig 185Miller Millermatic 210 mig.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VA couple of months ago, I would have said forget the TIG for now a buy a :Used $200 - $400 Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Stick Welder (230 volt), and aUsed $200 - $400 Lincoln, Miller. Hobart 140 MIG (110 volt),but... recently Thermal Arc has a introduced some 3-in-1 machines that do it all - Stick, Mig and TIG - check out their new Fabricator line:Thermal Arc 181i: 30 - 180 amps MIG, Stick and TIG - all DC only. (about $820)Input: 230 Volts AC @ 40 amps max for MIG & Stick and 25 Amps max for TIGOutput: MIG 180 amps @ 20%, Stick 175 amps @ 20%, Lift TIG 175 Amps @ 25%Here's the owners manual: http://thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads/DocLib_4796_0-5191.pdfWant more Power? Need a lot fatter wallet!Thermal Arc 252i: 5 - 250 amps MIG, Stick and TIG - all DC only (about $2,300)Input: 230 Volts AC @ 40 amps max for MIG, Stick and TIGOutput: MIG 250 amps @ 40%, Stick 230 amps @ 40%, Lift TIG 250 Amps @ 40%Here's some information: http://thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads/Doc...es_11-9-11.pdfSo yeah, like even with good buys on Craiglist, say $300 for an AC/DC stick welder and say $300 for a MIG, that still leaves you with no TIG and your not likely to get that for $300! Thus, in your shoes I'd look real hard at the at NEW Fabricator 181i with 3-year warranty at around $820. Free autodark helmet deal is on at some online dealer now too.
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey RWBob,Since you indicate you are going to "hobby" weld, & perhaps enhance your work environment, I would strongly recommend the Miller 211, or better yet, the 250/252. You can, later, add a spoolgun to do aluminum & have quite a versatile unit to do most anything. Just some mental fodder to contemplate "down-the-road" projects/materials you may want to do.Denny
Reply:Well after all that, I showed up at the LWS, and walked away with a Thunderbolt + Gloves + 10 pounds of electrodes. They are an Airgas place, but couldn't match the online price, so he dropped the cost of the welder by a bit, and threw in the other items to sweeten the deal.The electrician just ran a 100 Amp subpanel to my garage, and from that subpanel ran a 60 Amp 220 Volt outlet, and (2) 20 Amp 110 Volt outlets.I should be burning electrodes as soon as the Helmet + Jacket etc. show up. Now to dig up some scrap metal somewhere.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallPic of finished trailer would be nice.
Reply:Originally Posted by RhymesWithBobIt has 2 coats of primer on, and is now sitting under a blue tarp for the winter. The picture wouldn't be very pretty.
Reply:Originally Posted by RhymesWithBobWell after all that, I showed up at the LWS, and walked away with a Thunderbolt + Gloves + 10 pounds of electrodes. They are an Airgas place, but couldn't match the online price, so he dropped the cost of the welder by a bit, and threw in the other items to sweeten the deal.The electrician just ran a 100 Amp subpanel to my garage, and from that subpanel ran a 60 Amp 220 Volt outlet, and (2) 20 Amp 110 Volt outlets.I should be burning electrodes as soon as the Helmet + Jacket etc. show up. Now to dig up some scrap metal somewhere.
Reply:Look at the thermal arc 181I and new 252I. The latter is about 2K bit it does all 3 processes and I doubt u will need to buy another machine ever.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255You probably know this, but you can add a tig torch to your T bolt for not much money. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:03:42