New Project - help needed

admin

Have a new project where I'll have to weld together about 300 half circles mandrel bent from 1x2x1/8" tubing. (see drawing below) So the plan was to make a jig so each piece lines on the same and start welding...then go back and grind everything smooth so it looks like it was bent from one piece of tube.First off, before I buy the half circles does any one know a way to get this bent all from one stick??Secondly if there is any one in the NY/LI area that wants to make some extra cash and help my weld these babies I'm open to it...the project pays well and I'll pass that on to any helpers as I'm a one man show Tell me what you think:or click here to get a better view:http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...reenModel2.jpgLast edited by MetalArchitect; 10-23-2009 at 06:54 PM.
Reply:Looks like it could / would be a fun / PIA job.  Would help, but 3 hour drive would kill me....LOLWhere on the Island?I am tired of Ketchup, I want the Gravy...
Reply:Would it be considerably easier to use pieces of round tube and have the top and bottoms laser cut?Looking at the drawing it looks like they all get put together?  Maybe you could get one big piece for top and bottom lasercut and sandwich the pieces of tube.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Hello MetalArchitect, you have certainly got yourself a challenge there. In fact it might just be pushing the 'I wouldn't want to go there" button. If I'm reading the drawing correctly, the 1x2 is being rolled/bent the hard way. At the radius that is being called out, that in itself will be difficult without causing a considerable amount of crush/deformation on the 1/8" wall tube. One piece rolling would probably be out of the question due to the amount of run-off material required to initiate and make a rolled radius, you would end up with straight sections between the radius transition points. Even rolling the circles and then splitting them and rewelding could present a serious challenge. The rolling units that I am familiar with "might" be able to roll to size in a corkscrew fashion, yet once you split the halves they would likely have enough of a twist in them to cause some unsightly transition lines where you welded them back together. I will be curious to hear others take on your project and once you get started on it please update the forum with pictures. I'm sorry that I can't give any constructive help here. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Thanks guys...The tube is bent the easy way, I am having the 1x2 tube professionally CNC mandrel bent and when it comes in I am going to make a jig (haven't figured that out yet) to make sure every piece butts up to the next piece in the same way and same angle.I think the hardest and most PIA part will be the grinding and finishing to make all the pieces look like one piece without seeing all the transitions. We'll see I'll keep you guys in the loop
Reply:You can do it on a mandrell bender.  Ive done it with 316 Stainless and thats a pain in the behined to bend up.  Need a good one tho
Reply:A Hebo, which is a german made ornamental iron system, might be able to bend these all in one piece- you would have to make dies, as this is not one of their standard patterns, but it could probably do it.http://hebomachines.com/then click on WT-24 Hydraulic table. The second bending setup is more similar to what you would want, with full length 3/4" thick dies. Its basically a horizontal hydraulic press, kind of like an old school bulldozer.But if it was me, I would just have the entire thing waterjet cut from one piece of 1" plate. No welding, no grinding, no jigs, no accumulated error, just back the truck up to the loading dock, and pick it up.Yes, it would be heavier than tubing. You could, however, have it cut from aluminum.NO WAY that trying to jig, weld, and grind all those pieces isnt going to be an enormous pain in the butt.
Reply:Reis, I thought about suggesting the CNC water jet also, but I think if I  am reading the plan right, it would need to be cut from 2" plate rather than 1". Thats a bit thick for many places..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You are right- it is 2" thick- and its split level- that is, each sine wave piece overlaps the one next to it.You could, I suppose, have 2 pieces of plate, 1" thick each, cut, then overlap them. Still might be easier and cheaper than fabbing it.My waterjet guys can cut up to 6" or so, but more draft angle on thicker stuff. Amazingly enough, on thick material, plain old oxy-fuel cutting is often the best, and cheapest, way to go. If it was me, I would be making this from SOLID material, not from tubing. The tubing aspect has one small advantage- weight. But many disadvantages.It would be much, much easier to bend these full length sine wave shapes from solid bar, all in one piece. Hot, maybe, using a pair of matching dies like the Hebo system. Or, even cold on a hossfeld.This is a kind of a bastardization of historical designs, which, of course, were forged by blacksmiths.Modern architects often have no idea of how things are actually made, and consistently design things that are virtually impossible to actually build. I sure hope you bid high on this job- its gonna be a nightmare to build the way its specced.
Reply:Originally Posted by RiesModern architects often have no idea of how things are actually made, and consistently design things that are virtually impossible to actually build. I sure hope you bid high on this job- its gonna be a nightmare to build the way its specced.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88Would it be considerably easier to use pieces of round tube and have the top and bottoms laser cut?Looking at the drawing it looks like they all get put together?  Maybe you could get one big piece for top and bottom lasercut and sandwich the pieces of tube.
Reply:I would think the sandwiching method would create more more welding especially at the seams. and the pipe would need to be 13" diameter pipe.Weight is a BIG issue here as these are literally walls 7 feet by 11 feet they are already going to weigh 800-1000 pounds a piece, and are going to have to be gently maneuvered thru a hotel lobby and into the bar/restaurant. I only fabricate I'll let them figure out how to install. LOLRies you are correct that the wave overlaps the one next to it which is also behind it...so it is really 2 wave walls back to back with the waves in opposite directions to create the circle effect... these are not cirlces though.The pay will be good... the equivalent of a couple months pay at my full time gig for about 8 weekends of work, even though very tedious and time consuming work.DSW: did you get your Arch license? I'm working on my 4th test now, should be licensed by mid next year (fingers crossed)Last edited by MetalArchitect; 10-28-2009 at 09:34 PM.
Reply:Try R B Wagner.  They do induction bending.  Just email them the tube drawing and they will give you a price.  This is what they do.http://www.rbwagner.com/pages/Rbwagner.html
Reply:No I didn't. One of those things I sort of regret looking back on it. At the time I was making way more money in construction than anyone I went to school with, so looking for an office job would have meant a big pay cut. Now with the economy down it's tough to find anyone interested in some one as old as me starting out. I know several guys I went to school with who've been laid off with the drop in housing.Good luck with the tests.BTW if they have issues getting them in, get a rigger. We've used them several times in my buddy's Xray instalation business. Some of those machines weigh over a ton. The riggers usually have all the toys to get large, odd, heavy objects into strange places. We've had them haul large heavy machines in thru lobby's to atriums, then up to the 4th floor and down the hall..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Wagner is where I am getting the half circles mandrel bent. Supposedly hey cant bend the whole thing like I have in the drawings... but if you know something, or that they do have the capability please let me know.thanksDSW thanks, I'll let them know about the riggers. I know how it is making little money out of school...thats why I try to make money from my hobby, working in the office already put me back a couple years taking my test, thinking i was too busy to study, but i just had to start scheduling them and tell myself I'll make time!Last edited by MetalArchitect; 10-28-2009 at 10:07 PM.