TIg Plasma Stick units for <$1k

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Hi,I'm a small time welding hobbyist.  Generally just car projects.  I have a small Mig and have done Tig before.  I am interestd in getting a Tig for home use so I can do aluminum.  I have seen these TIg/Plasma/stick units for less than $1k.  What is the general opinion on these for the casual hobbyist?  An example model is the Super 160 40amphttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=012Thanks,Adam
Reply:They look like a good deal, but I have learned not to trust knockoff brands like that.  You don't find the quality.  For light occasional use it will probably do just fine.  But from stories i've heard they can last years, or hours.  And replacement parts have to be ordered overseas, installed by you with schematics and documentation written in Chinese or really badly translated English.
Reply:Thanks,What is the most inexspensive model you would trust?  Dont' see any mid or higher end units that are both Tig and Plasma.  Is there a reason for that?  How about some of these cheapies that seem to have good USA support.  I'm interesed if there is one that is more popular than others.
Reply:I don't know of any affordable combination units that aren't knockoff brands.  If you want high quality equipment you will be spending some dough and probably end up buying a separate plasma cutter and TIG welder.  My exact situation right now.  I would love to take the easy way out but am trying to get all good equipment when I can.  I've owned some of those knockoffs before, as well as Miller, Lincoln, and ThermalArc and the quality is much higher.But like I said, if you are only using it occasionally then it would probably work fine.  I have heard people ask about those before but still haven't seen a solid report on it from someone who has experience with high end equipment as well.  That would settle all of the wondering.  :shrug:Notice the chinese symbols written on the regulator.  Doesn't even have english on it.  Bad sign.Last edited by WelderBoy; 08-08-2007 at 11:05 AM.
Reply:Yeah I guess it's a gamble no matter what opinions I get.  I definetly am not going to spend $4k and up.  I will probably only use it about  10 times a year.  So I will probably just pick one and roll the dice.  I did that with my little mig 5 years ago and no complaints yet.  Just got lucky could have been a waste too.Any features I should definetly make sure it has?  Stuff flike......High Frequency start feature that allows for non-contact TIG starting.Pulse feature that gives you higher quality welds with less heat distortion.
Reply:Most people don't use pulse or slope.  Especially hobbyists.  I would only look for High Frequency and post flow.  If you have High Freq then preflow isn't needed because you can get a bit of time for gas to flow while your HF is engaged right before your actual arc starts.And for the most part AC for aluminum.  DC for just about everything else.  So depends on what you want to weld as well.
Reply:So all the fancy knobs on the Super 160 are unneccesary?  Most other welders in thsis class only have one knob (probably max current).
Reply:The aren't exactly unnecessary, they do serve a purpose for certain applications.  But most hobbyists will never use them.  Even many professionals won't use them.
Reply:Yorkiepap has some of these imports and seems to be happy with them.  Maybe send him a pm if you have a specific ques.Favorite right now is a Miller Syncro 200.Tons of tools and I blame at least one of them when things don't go right.
Reply:i allways found it to be fun reading "engrish". i was looking at the same welder, where did you find it? these days china is really starting to impress me with battery chargers and Lipo batteries, wonder if the same phenominon is happening with the welding world
Reply:Can the plasma and TIG  torch be connect at the same time? or do you need to unhook one to use the other?I would question the plasma cutting part of this unit first.  but I have never used this unit so who knows....
Reply:and I tought everlast did sporting goods...My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:So if any of you pros were to have to pick one of these $500 to $900 Tig units which would you choose based on their advertised specs?  The best way to see what's out there is just to take a look at ebay. Search under tig and look at that price range.  Look forward to a recommendation.Thanks,Adam
Reply:Originally Posted by adamb113So if any of you pros were to have to pick one of these $500 to $900 Tig units which would you choose based on their advertised specs?  The best way to see what's out there is just to take a look at ebay. Search under tig and look at that price range.  Look forward to a recommendation.Thanks,Adam
Reply:Well no pro here, but I'm extremely happy with my Parker 40 "turboed to 50A" plasma. It cuts thinner stuff cleanly, and thicker stuff, more cleanly then O/P. The little torch calls it a day up at 1", and has to really work over 1/2", but up to 1/4" is like butter and smooth. Not a Tig unit, but you can get one for ~$400 if you call Parker (check Pirate 4x4 for discount details - search Parker plasma). They also have combo units Tig/Stick/Plasma with similar "discounts". On the Hobart board there is another guy selling the same machines (in competition). Both give you someone in the states for support, and you have somewhere to sent the unit to for service. Ebay is great, and I believe these guys both sell there also, but you are better off contacting them through the boards they inhabit, or by phone. The best part about dealing with these guys is that they have a phone number, and are willing to take the time to help you with tech issues.Rusty
Reply:Originally Posted by 69 chevyI'm going to put this as delicately as possible.  This is a professional welding forum.
Reply:Chamfer - yes, there are a ton of new guys signing up every week and posting. However, as 69 Chevy pointed out, the guys who are here consistantly and whom have been here the longest, are professional welders.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Microzone,I'm not so sure about that, 69 seems to be one of those 'snobs' discussed in a separate thread. Any professional worth his salt would give an opinion about a discount machine, as a professional can weld with any machine because the pro understands it's skill, not the machine. a bad machine and a good weldor can produce a better weld than vice-versa.Telling a member to buzz off and go to a different forum is the same as saying "I'm too good to be bothered by your kind" and that is UNPROFESSIONAL.
Reply:I understand your point, let's please keep this on topic. If you don't like another person for their opinion, then don't read it or send them a message via PM. If you feel they are breaking the forum rules, then please inform us.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Hey adamb113 and others,My response is to help those who are considering an imported welding unit that will meet their needs and be somewhat cost effective to those on a limited budget...... and to clear up some misnomers on their reliability.FIRST: My equip. is listed in my signature list and I use at least 2-4 them every day. I purchased the Riland M250L spoolgun MIG welder because I needed versatility to be able to weld with 250Amps of power, be able to quickly change spools for diameter of wire and the ability to do aluminum. I have had this welder for a year now and it has digested over 100 rolls of wire so far and not a hiccup. It is as smooth as my Miller 3035, completely interchangeable parts, and I have less than $800 inc. shipping invested...and I got it on E-Bay as other equipment and supplies. I recently purchased the Giant Tech 200A stick welder because of its' compactness, power, and the reliability. I have taken it to the construction sites for equipment repairs and it has performed flawlessly, and has paid for itself 10 times over so far. I like the purchasing power and values on E-Bay and have saved a considerable amount of "hard-earned" money there. In addition, I spend a healthy sum at my LWS and he never complains. My 2 Chicago Electric MIG welders were made in Italy as I have had them almost 20 years now. They are both set up for aluminum only and one is in the shop, and the other in my mobile unit. My Riland WSME 200P TIG/Stick unit is used exclusively for the AL diamondplate classic/show car accessories I make and I have used it over a year now, and again...without a hiccup.NEXT: My personal equip. choice is Miller and I use a Lincoln Wirematic 255 at work. My Millers and the Lincoln at work have never failed me, get used brutally, at times, and just "keep on tickin". So, my welding "stable" is varied, serves me well, and the cost factor has allowed me to have a complete shop and mobile setup to handle almost any kind of job. To obtain a value, especially for equipment, you gotta to some homework. I researched the Riland & Giant Tech equipment, queried others who have & use them, and looked at all the reviews & feedback ratings to determine reliability & endurance. There is always the possibility to get a defective unit no matter who manufactures it....and that is an absolute!!!! I've been quite fortunate to get great equipment both used an new.....I did my homework. The Chinese do have some very good products and very high quality standards....not all are bad or shoddy.LASTLY: My post was not intended to be so elaborate, but I feel some clarifications needed rendered. I can read some "innuendos" in previous posts and words leaning towards being demeaning in nature. They are not necessary, provide guidance or help, solve a problem, or offer friendship & comradeship. I've been welding 43+ years and, although not in every welding arena, consider myself a professional and hopefully a mentor to those who seek to get their "feet wet". Gotta start somewhere.....give the "noobs" & youngsters a chance and some encouragement to pursue a profession and career we love. The future years are an open door because of the shortage of those in my age venue who are getting into the retirement stage of our lives. ME....hell I'll never stop unless it's time to take the scoot to Daytona or Sturgis!!!!!!!        Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Great post Yorkie...great insight, thanks!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Soooooooooooooo .........Unless I missed it in there somewhere, did anybody have a recommendation? I'm gonna go take a nap now after all that reading.  I'll check the forum again when I get up.Yorkiepap,  I stood up and put my hand over my heart as I read your post.69chevy,  You might be right there may be other forums out there with more hands on experience with the type of units I'm looking at.  Anybody able to point me in the right direction? Attached Images
Reply:Check with Giant Guy on here, spelled just like that. He stands behind his stuff. If not, it's your money, buy what you want. If it lasts, you're golden...if it doesn't, buy something else...lesson learned. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Hey Adam,My input was for the Riland and Giant Tech equipment I have. My WSME200P TIG doesn't have the plasma cutter as I didn't need that feature. It is available with a 40A & 50A plasma cutter and the prices are coming down a bit. The 160P combo units seem to find favor and appear to be reliable as per all the feedback responses I have read. I saw a couple go for less than $700 incl. shipping. Yesterday, one went for $611 incl. shipping. Some of the names are Longevity, Everlast, Riland, Giant Tech, and others. Most units appear to come out of the same factory. Look them up in the welding section of E-Bay, TIG category, and research the sellers & feedback ratings of the units.....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Thanks Denny!  Your the best.This seems like the same "old song and dance".  I'm a newbe in this arena but it seems like a great wealth and diversity of knowledge, experience and preference as to which welder to buy and what techniques should be used.   I just bought the ebay "chinese special" Riland WSE200P TIG for a grand.   Took it into the garage sat down on a 5gal bucket and started "stacking dimes" (pickin up the jargon lol)... Well it kinda looked more like a stack of my wifes pancakes but not bad for the first beads out of it.   I considered buying a Dynasty at 5 times the cost, I can afford it since I own a HVAC and commercial kitchen equipment service business. I still can't justify 5-6k.   I will be making money with it but not using it on a daily basis.   I also paint cars just as a hobby/side gig and was reminded about the spraygun "you get what you pay for" NOT ALWAYS!  I can take my $60 Husky, Home Dopey special gun and lay out glass and then pick up my $600 SATA and get runs and orangepeel.  Now granted the $600 gun feels like silk but is still outperformed by a cheapo IF you put the right person behind it.  I won't really have anything to compare my Riland up or down to but for what I have invested in it I feel like it was a super deal.  I do feel paying a little more for an offbrand that is supported by a reputable dealer.
Reply:Photos please.   That's a nice machine, produced I believe by Jasic.Last edited by GiantTechGuy; 02-14-2008 at 02:01 PM.http://www.PlasmaMetalCutter.comGiantTech Cut40DGiantTech Cut50DGiantTech CT520DGiantTech Tig200sGiantTech Arc200GiantTech Tig200PACDCMiller MM210No Brand Chinese Chop SawNo Brand Chinese 4" Angle Grinder
Reply:here's his brother... Attached Imageshttp://www.PlasmaMetalCutter.comGiantTech Cut40DGiantTech Cut50DGiantTech CT520DGiantTech Tig200sGiantTech Arc200GiantTech Tig200PACDCMiller MM210No Brand Chinese Chop SawNo Brand Chinese 4" Angle Grinder
Reply:Thats it!!  I really am not sure who REALLY manufactures the machine itself.  But it seems like the same thing many companies do.  They buy factory generic stock whether it be a welder, an A/C unit a washer dryer and put their badge on it.They are definitely chinese imports but china is really starting to come around as far as quality.  the same way the Japanese did many years ago, it used to be called "jap crap" but they wised up and focused on quality and engineering and now they are world leading in many technology fronts. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by GappaThats it!!  I really am not sure who REALLY manufactures the machine itself.  But it seems like the same thing many companies do.  They buy factory generic stock whether it be a welder, an A/C unit a washer dryer and put their badge on it.They are definitely chinese imports but china is really starting to come around as far as quality.  the same way the Japanese did many years ago, it used to be called "jap crap" but they wised up and focused on quality and engineering and now they are world leading in many technology fronts.
Reply:That looks like a great unit. I actually know of that factory - they make pretty descent machines. Good luck.LONGEVITYPhone: 877-566-4462
Reply:While I do not own one of these I have done a lot of research on them and what I have been able to find out is the Riland is pretty much the top of the pile. The opposite end it seems is yellow. I researched them as I was looking into an inverter. I went with a domestic simply because it had the power I needed, and factory authorized service is 20 minutes away and they guarantee I will have it back within 5 days should it fail on me. When I bought it they told me to take it and run it for 30 days and if I didn't like it they would give me a full refund no questions asked. For your purposes one of these machines would probably be fine (I don't really see you needing 200+ amps all day long as I frequently do). If I were going foreign I would look at the HF as we have a store here and they have never given me any static on warranty exchange, and that is simply a convenience thing. I did download the manuals on the Rilands from Riland USA and that didn't help them out at all. I figure if they want to sell them here they could at least fix the sometimes incomprehensible language even if they had to produce their own document. It's a pdf by the way. If you live in a high humidity area you might want to take that into consideration. I was looking at the spoolgun mig unit. Their literature says not to operate it in an environment with over 80% humidity. If that's the case I can only use it about 6 days a year.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I tried to decode the manrual too but no comprendo