TIG to learn with

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Hi,I'm new to the forum.I learned to stick and gas weld when I was in junior high back in the 80's.  I picked up a Weldmark 110 MIG a few years ago and learned that.  All my skills are "hobby" and home/auto repair related... nothing professional.What I'd like to know is what would be a good TIG machine to buy so I can learn TIG welding and use if for the same "hobby" home/auto repair.I'm not wanting to go out and spend thousands on a high end machine.I wouldn't mind a multi-function machine if the quality is there. I'd like to have a plasma cutter as well.I'd be interested in a used machine if there was a way to get it "checked out" before I bought it.Got any advise?Thank
Reply:You need to decide if you need/want a DC only tig or an AC/DC unit to do both alum and steel/stainless.DC only tigs are usually much less money even used. If you have a DC stick welder, you can set up a basic DC tig rig. All you need is the torch with gas valve, the connector lug, reg with hose and the gas cylinder and you are set to go. A used DC stick machine probably will set you back $250-400 depending on how hard you look, and the tig set up less cyl maybe another $200 or so. One of the old Dial Arcs or Ideal Arcs would be perfect for this.You can often find older transformer DC and AC/DC tigs from $500-900 if you hunt a bit. The down side to many of these is that they are large and need a decent sized power input, often 100 amps or more to run full range, but most times they will work on a 50 amp breaker at lower ranges. I see machines like Zaps Miller 330 AB/P in that range on a regular basis.  I've also seen some of the newer DC inverters like the Maxstar 150's in the $800 range."Newer" AC/DC machines like Syncrowave 180's and Syncrowave 200's can be found used from $1000-1500 depending on accessories and condition. An excellent machine to learn on and do alum with in the future if you can find them at a good price.I wouldn't get too enamored with getting an AC capable machine if you are on a budget and don't need right now to do alum. If a nice one comes along, go for it, but understand you will have a long way to go to be able to do alum. Steel with DC on the other hand is much easier to learn and you can get in much cheaper over all..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the input.I have one of the Lincoln Electric Stick welders. The AC-225 I think. I'm not home right now.I think it has been used once by my father.Is this the one you are talking about?  Is it hard to set this up to TIG weld?
Reply:Sort of... Your machine is AC only. Typicly called buzz boxes.  That machine will do some quick n dirty aluminum, but nuthing else (except stick, obviously).Just a thought, if your ok with a DC only machine, harbor freight has a 120v, 80a stick welder that can do some DC tig work. I haven't tried on mine yet, but soon i'd like to. You'll still need a torch and gas cylinder.Google "scratch start tig welding"-Alex-AlexSears/Craftsman 230A Buzzy BoxSears/Craftsman 180A Buzzy BoxChicago Electric 80A InverterALL STICK...ALL THE TIME!I spent a lot of time with the square peg and round hole.
Reply:If it is an AC225, it's an Ac only machine. ( these are the most common). You can't really set this up to do tig without a lot of hassle and then it would only do AC tig and not do steel.If it's one of the less common AC/DC models, then yes you could do this quite easily.Here's Tozzi's thread on a basic scratch start tig rig for a DC stick machine.www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=38106Last edited by DSW; 01-10-2012 at 10:15 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Looks like it is an AC only unit.So my options are buy a used AC/DC Lincoln for $300-$400 plus another $200 for the torch/cables/hoses/regulator... and have a used and limited unit...Or get something like the Everlast PowerTig 185 Micro for $850-ish and have a new unit?Or really bit the bullet and pick up an Everlast  PowerUltra 250P for $950Last edited by jag7720; 01-10-2012 at 10:51 AM.
Reply:You need to do your research before pulling the trigger on one of the import units. Unfortunately because these companies have their own dedicated areas and the PAY Penton, many of the threads dealing with machine issues have been moved to those sections and then deleted. These companies simply don't want you to know they have issues and how poorly they treat their customers after the sale. There have been many issues with units DOA or dieing shortly after their arrival, replacement units having similar issues, poor customer service after the purchase and so on. Also keep in mind these machines are not easily serviced. Most repair places won't even bother to look at them. That leaves you at the mercy of the importer. If they close shop in a few years you will be SOL. Quality control with these units are spotty at best. Way too many "bad batches" get thru, and it seems that even when there is a "bad batch" they keep on sending out units that fail to replace other failed units.I learned my lesson the hard way years ago about service issues with machines like this. Never again. It cost me a lot more in the long run compared to the $200-300 I saved up front. I'm also not real keen on the way most of these importer appear to do business.  Their general business practice to drag their feet, claim units are " in the mail", bluster and threaten when people want to push the issue and try and get their money back, and the appearance that they " pay off" customers when all else fails, and go out of their way to hide issues, simply doesn't sit well with me. It's not about where the machines were made, it's about the shady business practices of the importers who are out to make money at the expense of people who don't know any better.Do these units have a place. Yes. Have some people had good luck with theirs, Yes. However you will want to also think about those that haven't been so lucky. Is the cheap cost worth the hassles if you roll the dice and come up with snake eyes? In the end it's up to you to decide. I'd treat these as "disposable" machines. When they break, expect to toss it and buy a new one.Don't rule out a used machine just because it's had some hours on it. Most older transformer based stick and tig machines are built like tanks. There's a reason they have been around as long as they have and the reason some are still produced today. They were designed to be run hard and run for years like this daily. Electronics are usually fairly basic and robust compared to many of the newer imports. Service is easy to obtain and manuals are easy to come by. Parts for many things are still available from the manufacturer. All things none of the imports can claim. Yes you loose some of the fancy bells and whistles, but 95% of people won't ever notice the difference anyways. Many of the "newer" machines like Syncrowaves are often purchased by small shops and home hobbyists. They are being sold off because these folks simply can't afford to have an expensive "toy" sit in this economy. I've seen any number of very nice units bought by guys here where the machines had less than 200 hrs on the clock for less than 1/2 what they run for new. These are like new for machines designed to be used in light industrial applications..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I would take a look at the Thermal Arc 181i 3-in-1 machine.Here is a link to a weldingweb thread about it: LINKThermal Arc's 181i homepage: LINKIt is a MIG/TIG/STICK machine although you do need to purchase a $120 TIG torch to be able to do TIG.Prices are around $800-$900 online for the standard machine.It is made in China but is backed by a 3 year warranty from Thermal Arc which is a Thermadyne [email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by jag7720Looks like it is an AC only unit.So my options are buy a used AC/DC Lincoln for $300-$400 plus another $200 for the torch/cables/hoses/regulator... and have a used and limited unit...Or get something like the Everlast PowerTig 185 Micro for $850-ish and have a new unit?Or really bit the bullet and pick up an Everlast  PowerUltra 250P for $950
Reply:I would say lincoln precision tig 225 @2k price tag new.
Reply:HTP makes a really nice inverter tig welder. I got mine for 1500$ all complete.. HTP has been making welders for 30 years, not just some  company that just popped out of the ground.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Have you thought about taking a semester of tig welding from the local Community College ?   Before sinking hard cash into your  machine ?  Might convince you that you needed either more or less than you thought before you started out... and that local welding instructor might know of some deals locally he would put you on to.... Some CC's also have like 8 or 12 week one day per week ' adult ed ' classes of this type of thing...Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:Look into those little miller inverter welders. They are great. You can use them for stick or  DC TIG. They are about the size of a toaster and they plug into 110 or 220 and self set for each. Just plug it in where ever and away you go. I have had a couple for a few years now and they get used pretty heavy, never had a problem.Welding everything, from the crack of dawn to a broken heart.
Reply:Originally Posted by JRuppI would take a look at the Thermal Arc 181i 3-in-1 machine.It is made in China but is backed by a 3 year warranty from Thermal Arc which is a Thermadyne company.
Reply:Any good Tig welder would be good to learn on. I feel your pain. I have been wanting to learn tig for two years. In that time, I have been saving and saving for a good used machine to come available. People just wanted too much money for their well used stuff. I finally got tired of waiting and bought a new HTP 221. It was more than I was wanting to spend but its one of those pay now or pay later things. My wife didnt want to hear me complaining on some used POS that I bought and didnt like or realized it didnt work. She was like dont make me suffer (LOL). I was originally looking at an Everlast but read mixed things over the last couple years. I dont like mixed responses. On the other end, putting out 4k for a Dynasty was out. The reviews on HTP have been great. Talking to them, their customer services seems to be way up there. I wanted at least 200 amps, New or newer machine, adjustable settings like balance/pulse/so on, Both AC/DC, and HF Start.  Since I couldn't find a used machine, it came down (for me) to the HTP221 or the Lincoln PT225. After I thought about it for a while, I decided to go with the inverter machine.  Before looking at the HTP, I was just about to buy the PT225. I am just a hobby guy also and have no plans on doing any production welding. I work in a completely different field. These are just my toys. Some guys on here put some serious money in their equipment but they earn back much more than they put in. Its their bread and butter. Also, being down for a while to have to send a machine to the company would cost them money in down time so Red and Blue just make sense. Me, it doesn't matter at all. I will just work on something else or use my other welder and make due. I dont like what Miller did with the Diversion. I cant play around if I cant change the settings. That is part of the fun for me.By the way, what do you mean thousands? You cant buy much of a tig for hundreds. Then you have the consumables. Tungsten and the filler wire is a lot more money than mig welding. You can get something decent for $1500-$2500.Last edited by mikeb9550; 01-10-2012 at 07:13 PM.
Reply:Putting your location in your profile will help, but here's a pretty nice rig. I bought a similar set up and it's fine for learning TIG. It's a good enough machine that Lincoln started making and selling them again just recently.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=64442PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Thanks for all the advice!I'm in Kansas City and I'm Scottish so I'm cheap I want to eventually be able to weld aluminum. I get the thing about the import units... tempting as they are, I get it.  I'd rather not buy one as I feel the same about something that gets "mixed" comments.what do you mean thousands?
Reply:[QUOTE=jrw159;658451]] "You can buy two green machines for the price of what one Blue/Red machine costs and have one sitting on the shelf in case the other needs service."[/B]does this remind anyone of the expression" If i had a hat like  yours i would get a second one so i could crap in the first and cover it with the second.." ?somehow the everlast comment reminded me of the hats..apologies  if have offended the sensibilities of any reader..
Reply:There are 2 used TA  AC/DC TIGs on eBay right now.   The guy has a 185tsw asking 1850 and there's a "new" unused TA 200 with bids starting at 1K.  The 185's been sitting there for a while.  It's a great little machine.  I have one and it's likely more than you will ever need for hobby work.   DavidR is a pro welder and has been using his for many hours a week for years without a problem.   This a quality company with quality products.  My machine was made in Japan.  I can't really quibble with the quality if their electronics.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by jag7720I'm comfortable with around $1500 but anything over $2k is out...Is there a forum that I can post potential machines on to get advice on whether it is good/bad?