Automatic Driveway Gates & the Importance of Setting Posts

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Here is another article that I wrote recently. A little off topic, but still a good read. Enjoy.Setting the posts is one very important step when installing automatic driveway gates. There are a few basic fundamentals that if followed will guarantee long lasting, problem free driveway gate posts.When installing posts on any project it is best to be sure and dig the post-hole 3 feet deep to ensure a professional application. Post wall thickness should be ¼” thick to make sure a secure setting of posts is achieved and also that no bending will occur after the gate is hung. 4”x 4”x1/4” thick steel tubing for posts is structurally proper for most aluminum or steel driveway gates.5”x5”x1/4” thick posts should be used for all wood gates because they are typically heavier than driveway gates made from other materials.There are two main methods that are used to dig the post holes. The first, and simplest, method is a post-hole digger, which is a simple tool that digs a perfectly sized hole for the 4” posts. A post-hole digger can only be used on semi-soft ground. If the ground is heavy with rocks we in the industry we call this “DG” meaning dirt & gravel and a more powerful tool must be used.Once the hole is dug then the next step is to set and level the posts. This step is very simple but it is recommended to measure twice before pouring the concrete to ensure a level driveway gate. After the concrete has been poured and mixed the solution should be dried for at least 36 hours before hanging the driveway gates. If the gates must be hung before the concrete has solidified then they should be blocked up with a wedge in order to take the stress off of the posts and prevent a un-level application.If these simple guidelines are followed than it can be expected that a professional post installation will be achieved.Frank Allen Jr.Premiere Gate Systemshttp://www.PremiereGateSystems.com
Reply:So, Frank, are all of your future posts going to be spam?Rex
Reply:Mr Gates,Who exactly did you write this article for?So you're suggesting that here in South Dakota all our post holes should be dug to a depth of three feet? You wont be in business long around here! Our frost line is much deeper than that! I'm wondering who publishes your articles?
Reply:Those posts in your picture don't really look like steel square tubing to me.  They look like they were made form some of the gravel that I have ran into digging 4-5' (below frostline)post holes!!!
Reply:I've got an idea.  How about you come out to my place and build and install a whole automated gate system for free.  What I'll offer in return is that I'll photo and video document the whole thing so that instead of just a single picture of a completed gate and a random article, you can post an entire how-to and show how good you are.  I think that if you fail to accept this challenge that your just posting random spam and you'll never show that you may know what you're doing.  Hell, just to help keep your costs down, I'll help out with the welding and you can setup all of the build in my shop and use my tools (but you'll have to provide all of the materials and the work to install it for free).  --Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:easy fellas, this doesnt seem to fall into the spam category, he wasn't pushing any specific product and it was useful information if you have never hung a gate or set a post.i do have at least one question though, you said there are two main methods for digging a hole, but only mentioned one. im assuming the powerful tool is an auger?and this may be nitpicky, but concrete doesnt dry, it cures.
Reply:1. If your in areas with deep frost line, then for sure you have to go deeper. But the frost line here in Oklahoma is 16-18'' and I ALWAYS set my gate posts 42-48''.So I think 36'' is the bare minimum. I would not consider it "Professionally installed post".2. Maybe I miss understood you, but it seemed you said the whole diameter only needs to be just larger then the size of the post. Wow that is totally wrong. With a 4'' post, I would use at least a 12'' whole. I normally do 24''. My rule of thumb is to figure what your gates total weight will be, not the just the weight of the gate. But the weight the post will be holding up with the leverage of the gate factored in. Take your total weight and you will need that  much or more concrete to insure a sag free life.3. You said nothing about re-enforcing the concrete with rebar or adding fingers to the posts. This is something any gate professionally put in would have.I am not saying the things above have to be done on every gate. A walk-thru gate would not require that much reinforcement.I am not trying to be a jerk, but you may want to get a little more experiance before you post Professional How To's.Last edited by BryanDowdy; 12-04-2009 at 11:10 PM.Dynamic MetalworksMontrose, CODynMetalworks.com
Reply:im gonna agree with you rusty ripple, we cant jump on the guy yet, but he does need to learn a few things before preaching. down here in east texas a 3' set post would come out of the ground in less than a year, even with concrete. we have some interesting soils, combinations of clays, sands, and gumbo's you'd get laughed out of town for suggesting 3'.ive seen houses be level one week, rain the next week and 2 weeks later when its dry the house is on a small slant. you cannot conquer the earth, you can only build stronger to withstand its forces.my buddy that builds fences suggests a 2:1. for every 2 feet in the ground 1 foot goes underneath. for a 4' tpost, 2 feet in ground, for an 8foot tpost, 4 feet in the ground. and thats t posts. when we set corner braces (8" wooden poles) we drill about 4 or 5 feet and go for a 1:1 ratio - normally drilling a 12" auger hole (failed to mention its 10 times easier quicker and faster, plus digs a perfectly vertical hole when used correctly and properly) and putting a good bag or 2 of quickrete or whatever's cheapest. might be slightly overbuilding it, but its tough and you can run into it. strong enough to hold cattle. if you went with ur 3' rule from a cow pressing on it, youd get a month before they push it over.now if i was gonna build a swinging gate mounted on a pole, id just be liable to drill as far as i could, with the biggest bit i could. that way i can get the largest hold possible around the dirt. probably go down about 8 feet, for an 8 foot high fence and gate, cased in a 12" hole with about 10+ bags of concrete. that post will never move again without serious involvement with some crazy machinesand there's my 2 cents worth.I break things for a living...
Reply:I agree, three feet isn't enough in most soil conditions.And personally, I've decided that a small pier of concrete bisected by a pipe is a waste of time and concrete; compacted gravel is a better base and back-fill, especially in frost country. I haven't updated the post driver thread, but I'm on a job driving posts in up to twelve feet.Yes, 12, -count ‘em-  a dozen feet. Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by rusty rippleeasy fellas, this doesnt seem to fall into the spam category, he wasn't pushing any specific product and it was useful information if you have never hung a gate or set a post.i do have at least one question though, you said there are two main methods for digging a hole, but only mentioned one. im assuming the powerful tool is an auger?and this may be nitpicky, but concrete doesnt dry, it cures.
Reply:I wrote this article about a year ago and I though that you guys would enjoy it, but it seems that all I see is hostile criticism. To the few of you adding positively to the conversation I thank you.-FrankAutomatic Driveway Gates, Custom Gates, Iron & Aluminum Gates
Reply:still dont really see it as thinly veiled advertisment.  welcome to the forum frank.  sorry your first posts were met with hostility. it happens, esp when people think the poster is a spammer, which does happen and is annoying.where abouts are you located?and i am curious to know where this article was originally published.
Reply:We use 4" sched 40 for corner posts here.  Accepted depth is 3' on firm native soil.  Deeper next to fill or worked ground ie, road right of ways.  Double H at corners and where gate is hung.  This is for pasture fence only, with relatively light gates.Personally I prefer setting the post in concrete to prevent corrosion.  I don't want to pay to have the job done in another 15yrs or sometimes much less.  QuickCrete with added cement to bring it up to 6 sack mix is waterproof, and keeps ground moisture from attacking the steel.Speaking of paying........after the last fencing job I've decided to do all my own fence work from now on, healthy back willing"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by rusty ripplei do have at least one question though, you said there are two main methods for digging a hole, but only mentioned one. I'm assuming the powerful tool is an auger?and this may be nitpicky, but concrete doesn't dry, it cures.
Reply:Originally Posted by rusty rippleeasy fellas, this doesnt seem to fall into the spam category, he wasn't pushing any specific product and it was useful information if you have never hung a gate or set a post.i do have at least one question though, you said there are two main methods for digging a hole, but only mentioned one. im assuming the powerful tool is an auger?and this may be nitpicky, but concrete doesnt dry, it cures.
Reply:I'm a pier setter for gates.  Set a steel stud with plate on top and bottom  in the concrete and come back another day to weld the gate post to the plate and install gate.  I also dig holes wider at the bottom than the top.
Reply:tap welder, do you have a problem with concrete exploding when you do that? ive always been hesitant to try that for two reasons, exploding concrete, and i've noticed a welded joint seems far more susceptible to corrosion and being that close to the ground seem like it just flirting with disaster.  are either of these problems?
Reply:Never had a problem with exploding concrete.    The weld is actually on a pedestal, the plate.  The plate is above the level of the concrete.  All is cleaned and painted.