just started welding school today and...

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well my job sent me out for welding school today, ive been wanting to get into it for quite sometime now, but i have a few questions. First off my teacher was a nuclear pipe welder for 40 years, i striked my first my first rod at 730am, and he was kinda dickish, after noon i had advanced enough that he started letting me do horizontal welds, but after reviewing my work he had nothing positive to say (which i was expecting) but didnt really give me any other help then, "this is how you do it and keep your stick in the puddle".... but needless to say after 8 hours of burning rods i was pretty beat up mentally, my question is, do people usually catch on to welding with their first couple of horizontal welds or does this stuff take time to learn???
Reply:find a way to brace yourself to keep your arm steady.  Horizontal is a bitch.  just got to go fast, and try to pause at the top for a second, and don't pause at the bottom.  Adjust amps for cold lap and undercut if your doing this right.  I run 115amps with 1/8" 7018.  It can be done.  Sucks your teachers a dick.
Reply:im using 7018, and he said i was going to fast but i was starting to undercut a lot, but i was having splatter everywhere, he also had me running at 170...like i said it was my first day so im a bit frustrated and frizzeled
Reply:Probably just his style. I will say it's best if he knocks you down and then builds you back up rather than the other way around. Let's just wait and see if he builds you up.                                                  MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Yes on both counts.Yes, it takes a lot of practice, & Yes, your teacher sounds like a dick.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofusProbably just his style. I will say it's best if he knocks you down and then builds you back up rather than the other way around. Let's just wait and see if he builds you up.                                                  Mike
Reply:Some instructors do not lay it out in plain language.  You will spend as much time if not more than if you had to learn to play the piano.  To be proficient at something it takes between 5000 and 1000 hours.  Your course might be a shade over 500 hours of practice if you are lucky.   There will be many days of beating your head against the wall while your buddy in the next booth sails through the same exercise.  If your instructor has forty years of welding under his belt?  Most welders are not going to give you a hug every time you do something right.   Just consider the fact that he moved you to horizontals.  I have seen some students doing welds on the flat for over a week.   Be glad you are not taking ironworking... The first time I saw an ironworking class I wilted at the words coming out of the instructor.  And that was just normal.  He wasn't upset.
Reply:" i striked my first my first rod at 730am"Should Be:  I struck my first my first rod at 730am.- (period,sentence)"im using 7018, and he said i was going to fast but i was starting to undercut a lot, but i was having splatter everywhere, he also had me running at 170...like i said it was my first day so im a bit frustrated and frizzeledYou put periods at the end of sentences.When your teacher said you were going too fast, did you slow down?You cannot be an expert in one week.Just keep going. You are doing fine. It is just a blow to your ego thats all.All the other students probably feel like you. Just keep doing it. You will get where you want to go.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 02-09-2012 at 06:20 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by joejoe8455yea, im not a kinda of person that needs praises or a pat on the back, im pretty thick skinned, it was just frustrating being it my first day and already getting crapped on
Reply:First of all, an old man said "you got to something to get recognized". Maybe your not doing what the instructor told you or showed you. Maybe your not used to the ways of the construction industry. So "suck it up" if you don't know how "reach between your legs; grab your balls and pull up", Snivelers????
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald Branscom"getting crapped on"  WOW you sound like your feelings were really hurt.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald Branscom" i striked my first my first rod at 730am"Should Be:  I struck my first my first rod at 730am.- (period,sentence)
Reply:Originally Posted by joejoe8455are you my welding instructor today, you kind of sound like him. and thanks for the english lesson buddy.
Reply:If your skin's that thin, don't even consider going thru basic training in the military. They'd have you reduced to a sniveling baby the first day.                                            MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:My class spent a week watching my arc instructor glorify himself whilst running passes and explaining what he was doing. Then we were shoved in booth for a damn year. Run plates, get laughed at, run plates get laughed at, run plates finally get a nod of approval.That's how it works.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:sounds like my old pipe welding teacher, i understand what you mean. Some times you get good teachers and others are just a pain in the a$$ to deal with. all you can do is wake up and bight the bullet and take it day by day and learn all you can .
Reply:you're teacher sounds like a guy who can "do it", but can't teach it. Teaching is a skill like any other.It took me many months of class and OJT to start welding well. The key to my success was having multiple coaches/teachers. All communicated differently, and I picked up different tidbits from them. It was up to me to put them all together. Do yourself a favor and do some reading as well as going to class.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:check your P.M.s   please....From the desk of Kevin CaronTrying to be the best me I can!www.kevincaron.comAHP Alpha Tig 200x MillerMatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Originally Posted by joejoe8455im using 7018, and he said i was going to fast but i was starting to undercut a lot, but i was having splatter everywhere, he also had me running at 170...like i said it was my first day so im a bit frustrated and frizzeled
Reply:wow, there have been a lot of Dick responses to this. to the OP. Don't think you're doing badly because you didn't get Horizontal on your first day. It's a big step from flat to horizontal. and the fact that he moved you off flat on day one is something to be proud of. As for his teaching style. he's a grumpy old man who's set in his ways. No easy way around it. It's on you to suck it up and deal with it.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I agree that there have been some harsh replies to a guy that is looking for some perspective.  I am an instructor at a local community college and I do not baby my students, but am honest with them.  If it looks like a condor flew into the lab and took a dump on there weld, then I tell them just that.  The difference is a follow up with my interpretation of how they ran it, look at the variables and give them a few suggestions to try.  If they are still stuck I sit in the booth and give them live feedback as they are welding.  I want them to understand what is happening so they make corrections themselves.  Just because he has welded for 40 years and is the best welder that ever was does not mean he can instruct.  In fact generally, guys like that FORGOT what it was like to learn what they have perfected so they have no appreciation for the tribulation.  My two cents.Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkJay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:Let's see some photos, give us electrode classifications, diameter, amperage, position and we'll do our best from virtual land.Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkJay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:Also, soapbox again, I think it is narrow minded to say that if you don't have a 'thick skin' or act a certain way that someone isn't cut out to be a welder.  The industry is too vast to expect everyone that welds to fit a certain personality profile.  Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkJay DavisAWS-CWIC-60 Specialty Welding ContractorLoving husband, and father of two boys (
Reply:Now I understand why the California Condor is endangered. Welding instructors are doing their best to eliminate them!  I have this vision of a sign hanging on the shop wall. "Danger. California Condor Roosting Area."Some people pick things up faster than others. In many cases you have to have one of those "Ah ha" moments when everything suddenly clicks and it all makes sense. I've had students who frustrated the heck out of me. I know they simply can not see what they are doing. They can't point the rod/wire at the right place etc no matter how many times I explain it and show them. Nothing I can do to help them until they "see" it for themselves. In one case the guy went thru almost 75% of the class before it suddenly clicked and all of a sudden he was banging out joints after 3 or 4 tries.If you can try and take some picts of your welds and post them up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by jbyrdLet's see some photos, give us electrode classifications, diameter, amperage, position and we'll do our best from virtual land.Sent from my DROID3 using TapatalkIn most classes, we got a demo of the joint, and a look at what the final weld should be, more or less. Then we spent as much time as needed to pump out acceptable clones of the demo.weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell: weld, dunk, show & tell:   City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Give me the crusty, profane old ba$tards (the kind who know their shiite) any day as a trainer or instructor!  I learned a lot from them over decades in the Air Force and in civil life.They use that to wean out the less-dedicated and folks who annoy others in a team environment, even if they are so old and crusty they don't articulate it that way.If I am sensitive, that's a barrier to learning and a self-induced distraction.The way to learn is burn and burn and burn and burn until all annoyances drop away and you are in the "zone".  People are not "taught welding", they are taught how to "teach themselves welding". It will all become clear, and some exasperation (with others, self, the rod, the metal, and much more) is part of the ride.Also, ASK QUESTIONS! Many students just melt metal and don't get prompt feedback.Last edited by farmall; 02-10-2012 at 02:54 PM.
Reply:well thanks for the mixed responses but as of today i made some big improvements. i finished my 5/8 horizontal, the old man even gave me a compliment saying my beads were looking damn good. he moved me to verticals using 1/8 7018 set to 100 amps. i was only on it for 3 hours, but my welds were looking like chewed bubble gum, and i was having my rod stick a lot. can anyone give me some advice for helping me out with vertical welds?
Reply:With vertical you really need to be able to "see" and read the puddle to have any luck. If you can't distinguish between slag and molten steel yet, you will have a tough time at this until you can.There's any number of good threads on vertical up on here. A search on "7018 vertical " or "vertical up stick" will give you hours of reading to sort thru..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofusProbably just his style. I will say it's best if he knocks you down and then builds you back up rather than the other way around. Let's just wait and see if he builds you up.                                                  Mike
Reply:I hated going up at first, but after learning what DSW is talking about, I started to like it.  I ran mine at 105 to 108 amps.  I would scratch start it about a 1/2 from the bottom going down, and then run over my scratch.  I found pausing on the sides for a split second really helped reduce any undercut.  I do a slight weave when stick welding, like a 1/8 in a curve going down in the middle just slightly.  The slag will kinda craddle the weld puddle as you go up.  I have been told, but haven't done this.  Take a tig pedal and use it to control the amps.  when you get to the top let off the pedal a little bit to keep from blowing out the puddle.
Reply:To to OP,I understand where you are coming from on this. Im in a 15 month program for 5 hrs a day  non stop welding as well as theory, blueprint classes, metallurgy. etc. I work at an industrial steel engineering company and im AWS certified in "dual shield" FCAW .  <---  just a little background.. now let me get to my point..If welding was easy enough to learn in a day then anyone could do it and it would pay minimum wage. It looks easy but takes A LOT of PRACTICE. Dont feel like im dogging on you at all but ill explain some of the ways i was taught back when i did all my stick welding and maybe it will help you out. First of all when we did our competencies we started with 6010 and ran flat position surface welds for a couple of days, overlapping them until they looked nice. then we moved on one at a time through all the flat position fillet welds; inside, outside corners, lap, "T" , butt joints.. etc.. and after we did all of the flat welds we were then allowed to move onto horizontal surface for a day or two then repeat the steps through 3f and 4f. then we moved onto 7018 and did all the positions again. It sounds like your teacher is letting you move too fast to tell you the truth. If i were you i would spend a day just running flat surface beads and overlapping them, learn to overlap then about 2/3rds over each other and have a nice smooth convex surface to the beads. Lets face it you dont have much time i assume at evn looking at 7018 through a hood. You need to spend time just watching how it lays down, the characteristics of it, how to go a spmoothe speed to the puddle flows smoothly right behind your arc like a wave. i use a slight cursive "e" motion or a backwards "c". after you dow that for a while then do some flat joints and move onto horizontal surface welds. pause at the top of your oscillation for a split second longer and dont pause at the bottom. Your teacher may sound like a dick but if you cant take him, then good luck on the job with a ******** foreman getting at you. you will do fine man, just dont worry about him, worry about welding. 170 is hot. sounds like your instructor is used to running hot and fast and needs to remember where he started. if you are running 1/8th rod then atart about 110 or 115. maybe turn down you dig. and if you use a 5/32 rod start around 140. that will give you a good base. i cant stress enough starting with the basics and "acing" them. horizontal welds with 7018 are to me one of the more difficult positions with that rod family. I love welding and have been offered a teaching spot on the weeknds at my local tech school but dont have the time. let me know if you have any other questions. just keep it up and get used to failing and going back to the drawing boards. like my instructor said, see all the ways to lay down a crappy weld and mess up. get it out of your system that way you will see waht works. sooo many people are afraid to turn up the heat or turn it down. or change anything they are doing when learning because they are scared to mess up. who cares ur in school so everyone knows you are gonna suck for a while. peace bud
Reply:^^^^^ oh, one mroe thing i forgot to add is you were mentioning undercut and felt that going faster would prevent this. This is a misconception people have when starting 7018, they think it is undercutting because they are going too slow and it is gouging into the edges of the toe of the weld. Not true. undercut is almost always cause by going too fast. your rod will burn out the toes, yes, but you have to go slow enough to let the weld puddle come behing and flow out and fill it in or it will leave the undercut edges. thats why people pause and the edges with 7018. keep it up.
Reply:Originally Posted by joejoe8455im using 7018, and he said i was going to fast but i was starting to undercut a lot, but i was having splatter everywhere, he also had me running at 170...like i said it was my first day so im a bit frustrated and frizzeled
Reply:When I went to school, I never stick welded in my life, only MIG.. I picked up on it pretty quick, and actually liked doing it.. One thing, you can never run enough beads.. practice, practice, practice.  Now, I can do TIG, MIG, and Stick, and when I go back to visit my teacher, I wind up teaching some of the more advanced kids.  I wish I had more hood time, but it costs money, so to practice at home I could easily drop a few hundred a month just in gas for my TIG welder. (which is my favorite method.)  Bottom line, practice.www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:Originally Posted by m_a_r_c_u_s^^^^^ oh, one mroe thing i forgot to add is you were mentioning undercut and felt that going faster would prevent this. This is a misconception people have when starting 7018, they think it is undercutting because they are going too slow and it is gouging into the edges of the toe of the weld. Not true. undercut is almost always cause by going too fast. your rod will burn out the toes, yes, but you have to go slow enough to let the weld puddle come behing and flow out and fill it in or it will leave the undercut edges. thats why people pause and the edges with 7018. keep it up.
Reply:What is with the terminology?  It's SPATERRRRRRRRRRRRRR, not splatter lol.have a good day. lol