Pics of columns I extended

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I know how much we all like to look at pictures, so I decided to take pictures as I went along. I had to add 3ft to each one. pic 1- grind paint and mark where I was going to cutpic 2- grind and bevelpic 3- 2 pieces togetherpic 4- 2 angles used to keep tubing straightpic 5- spliced and tacked together Attached Images
Reply:Additional picsI had to tack with a stick machine because the wind was blowing pretty hard. (6011-115amps)  then I welded them with the migpic 1- grind tacks before weldingpic 2- first pass with mig, 21 volts 275 ipm (ER 70S-6) flow meter at 30 cfhpic 3- second pass pic 4 and 5- machine settings Attached Images
Reply:Nice job cw.  I had forgotten about this project and wanted to see the results.  Looks like the extension material came from other columns not needed for the build?Thanks for the posts.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks duaneb55, Yes, he bought extra columns that had a dent or a little slight bend to make the extension.
Reply:Columns must be dead straight or they will easily buckle. Try pushing on a soda straw, once it buckles there is no stopping it.
Reply:I always did something like this in a single pass, and it required an Ungodly amount of rod manipulation to build the required bead and keep the puddle from dropping thru.  I started to do it in two passes and was much happier with the results.Do you find that grinding the first pass a bit helps to make for a more level bead on the second pass?  I found that it helped remove the hump from the first pass, and leveled the second pass really well."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:transit, you are correct and thats why we took the ones that were bent to cut for the splice. When I say bent, I mean at the most 3/8" in 13', so when I cut my 3' piece I put a straight edge on it to make sure that piece was still straight.famersam, I put a good bevel  and used my mig so I didn't have to grind the first pass,and when I put the second it is just above flushbut to answer your question, yes it does help when you grind the first pass
Reply:Nice looking welds. Are you going to place any type of fish plate on the outside?Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:I don't know all the details, so take this for what it's worth... I'm a bit surprised to see the 2 welds. I would have prefered to just make one cut and weld, using a longer bottom piece from the doner column, rather than 2 welds with plain tube.Weld looks good however..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ian-MetalSmithThanks, and there will be no fish plate, not that it wouldn't hurt to have some. I work for a metal building fabrication co. and thats how we do it with everything, pipe, square tubing, I-beams etc, and I'm not saying thats how it should be done either.DSW,I thought about washing the top plate and adding the piece then rewelding the top plate, but the customer thought it would be faster this way, so I told him okay. The reason I didn't want to mess with the bottom, is that the plate is 20"X20"X1-1/4" and is extremely heavy, but that would have the way to go.It took me 1.5 hrs to do one. Thanks
Reply:I always cut a backing plate to go behind the welds if the columns will be load bearing.    Usually out of 1" +plate.   cut to a tight fit nip the corners and insert into the tube and tack the corners.Then slide the other tube up tack the corners then burn rod hot and fast.  provides for a full reinforced full pen weld.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:This is a normal requirement on a large column job.  Buy the stock in 20" pieces and figure how to not waste anything.  One of my first chores as a helper was to figure out how to get all of the different completed units out of the purchased materials.  Those columns are still holding a roof up over some gas pumps today, 23 yrs later.  See them all the time
Reply:Those are some nice looking welds !So, exactly how tall are these columns and how much weight are they supporting ?Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:Dualie, thats a good way to reinforce the tube, thanks.akpolaris, that how it is where I work. I've already had to put 4 splices in 4" schedule 40 pipe 16ft long.I have questioned some of the things I had to splice, only to have the foreman ask me for my engineering degree, so I do the best I can with what I have.jman, thanks and the columns are 16' tall, and I'm not sure about the weight. I know they are going to be 12ft apart, so there's going to be enough to handle the weight.
Reply:I thought AISC specs require column splices to be minimum 4ft away from beam connections, or if beam-to-beam is less than 8 ft then the column splice is to be at the mid-point between beams.AISC-341-05 Section 8.4Also, 6011 for tacking?  I thought structural pretty much required 7018 or other -H16 (or better) and CVN rated filler if using SMAW?  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:CWIt has to do with the use of materials.  That stuff cost money and the bean counter buys enough to equal total lengths of finished columns or beams.  it is up to the skilled worker to do the math and "make it fit".  Ya can't be having drops that are big enough to reuse for another length.  Other you and I would be tossing them in the truck, taking them home & splicing them together for our own use!
Reply:..... Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:MoonRise, you maybe correct, because I don't know all the codes. That is the way I was told to do it. I've been doing it that way for 9 years and the co. has been in business for over 30 years. I'm not saying that this way is the correct way, but it has been approved by an engineer. As for the 6011 rods, I'll tack them and then I'll grind them down so I can burn through and get full penetration.
Reply:Kinda odd to do open roots if time is important.  Most local shops are not certified/tested for open roots and all structural hollow sections must use a backing ring.  That way one can weld it up much faster.  With a backing ring often they bevel only one side.
Reply:Time out.........reality checkI do a lot of welding on hollow structures.  Broken tubing on farm equipment.If I wanted to add a backing ring, and assuming I could get a ring that would fit, it would require literally cutting the entire piece of equipment apart.In my poor backward Okie way, I gouge the piece with a grinder, and get it down to where I see full penetration of the joint, and weld away.  And weld hot.As a matter of fact, I ocassionally burn through.  I would imagine that's pretty good penetration.I admit I don't do code work, I just do stuff that HAS to workIf I'm a little worried about the welds I add a little bit to the cap to make up for the possible lack of full pen weld in the root.  Dunno if it's right, but haven't had a disaster yet.I think you can fishplate till the cows come home, but it's just as likely to fail at the extremes of the fishplate.Seems to me that the instant you weld a piece of material you've changed the nature of the material.  Reduced ductility etc.While the filler may have properties that exceed the parent metal, it seems that it's the parent metal on either side of the weld that fails.We're living in an imperfect world, and trying to cancel out the variables.  And sometimes it is the best we can do, but not actually the "best".If truth came to shove, I'd actually feel more comfortable standing under columns that were mechanically connected...........bolts rivets etc.Distrust of welds is well founded.  Too many changes in the actual chemistry of the parent metal."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:And with this bit of dis infomation I bid y'all a good night. LOLUsed to kiss my pup on the nose before bedtime, but don't have that luxury anymore."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Of course you can weld it up any way you want and if anyone says anything run the "wheres it gonna go" line.  But bottom line is if your not sure what or how its going to be used, and its your *** on the line,  like lotechman said you'll want to use a backing ring.  Weld it with 7018 and with a good weld your tube should pass any inspection.
Reply:One shop I worked in did not even bother with rings.  On square tubing we would shear 3/4 plate since we had a big shear.  The corners would be quickly rounded off then set 3/8 into one tube end.  The weld could be done with 1/16th flux core wire at full heat and there was no concern of ever blowing through.  The code didn't stipulate the type of backing to do and since a diaphragm was faster to make than a ring we went that way.  Just a different way of doing things.
Reply:lotechman, you are right about time being of importance, and we are certified in an open root smaw and gmaw. Since I've been there, thats how we do it and we have engineers and draftsman that approves it. I've gone on a few road calls and the general contractor wanted me to just butt them up and throw a bead around itThanksSimon