Camper frame to utility trailer

admin

I picked this up last year or so for $450.00  Clean title, ID tag for 6000# gvwr,and two underslung axles with electric brakes. It spent its life in a campground, and it has been languishing under my pine tree waiting for me to get going on it since.I'm starting this thread because I have a couple things that I would like some advice on, and also to bump it up to the top of my list of projects.  The tires look new except for the major dry rot on the sidewalls. They will not be used.The deck originally measured 24'. I cut 6' off the rear to reduce it to 18' deck. Ball coupler is 42" forward of the front of deck. Tongue "A" frame and main frame members are 5" x 1.75" channel. In the pics I have the rear axle removed. My intention is to remove the rear spring hanger, and relocate it in front of the existing front hanger. This will place the center of the tandems 2" rearward of a 60/40 front/rear distribution. I have some 4" tall "jr.I beam"  that I will use for cross members on two foot centers, and It will probably get 2" oak planks on top.Anyhow, here are some pics, and I'll ask a question or two in my next post. Attached Images
Reply:Should I reenforce the tongue to main rail joint, and how?Two foot spacing lands a cross member on top of the joint, as in the pic.Should the x-members be welded to the top of the channel perpendicular to the channel, or parallel to it on the bottom of the x-member... , or all around?Brakes, any good online sources?Hoping to hear from Dabar 39 or any of the other wise trailer guys.Thanks for looking.(EDIT) Just for clarity, In the last pic, the original member under the "new" proposed I beam x-member is light guage, and is cut to fit around the A frame of the tongue. Does the additon of the x-member on top/immediately behind it strenthen that area enough or ?? I will probably install stake pockets on the front and sides. Attached ImagesLast edited by daddy; 09-13-2008 at 01:47 PM.Reason: more info
Reply:If it were mine I'd fit and weld 2' pieces of the I-beam between the cross pieces above the 5" frame rails and carry some I-beam out the tongue to the coupler. I don't know what you plan to haul on it,but I think it will stress the channel frame w/o some help above it.                        JMHO,                                  MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Daddy, sounds like you've done your homework. all of your ideas are pretty much what they should be. The 42" coupler is perfect and 2" behind the 60/40 on the axle is just fine as well.I would also put the cross members at the 2' centers as you mentioned but If I was worried about the strength of the channel at the tongue joint I would run a second piece under the existing side rail about 2/3rds of the way to the first axle hanger. And yes, I would suggest the piece on top of the front crossmember as you have it pictured. I would also suggest using fixed siderails as opposed to removable stake sides. Fixed siderails would strengthen it up more than you would think. Also I would use either 2x8 or 2x10 plank boards and bolt them down with 2 decking screws (forget about using carriage bolts) on each end and one in every other crossmember. I'll take a picture of the screws I'm talking about and post them later. One other thing you may want to consider is moving the jack further back on the tongue, in most cases mounting it where it is prevents the use of your tailgate on the tow vehicle.You are off to a good start, carry on and keep the pics coming. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:By the way, I use Axle Products in Arkansas for all of my trailer parts but they may kill you in freight. They have a sister company that may be better for you on shipping located in Elkhart, Indiana. They are Axis Products Inc. and their web site is  www.axisproducts.comBy far cheaper than the other companies out there and their customer service is really good as well. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Originally Posted by dabar39If I was worried about the strength of the channel at the tongue joint I would run a second piece under the existing side rail about 2/3rds of the way to the first axle hanger. And yes, I would suggest the piece on top of the front crossmember as you have it pictured. I would also suggest using fixed siderails as opposed to removable stake sides. You are off to a good start, carry on and keep the pics coming. Dave
Reply:It will probably be o.k. the way it is but it wouldn't hurt to place the I-beam width wise across the top of the front edge of the deck as you had it placed in the picture and I would run another piece of channel or some box tube say like 2"x3" or 2"x4" or if you have enough, the I-beam would work, from the front edge of the trailer going back towards the axle on the underside of the frame. The weak spots are where the tongue meets the first crossmember, it will want to twist that in the upward direction and then where the tongue meets the siderails it will want to twist that downward. If you put the one piece on top and one piece going down both sides the weak spot will be removed and you should be o.k. with stake sides as you are wanting to put on it. Dave Attached ImagesI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Wow! snazzy drawing!  That makes sense now. Thanks alot. If anyone else has any input or suggestions, don't be shy... I have thought about this quite a bit, but this is only my second trailer build, and I don't want to have to redo anything.
Reply:I got the spring hangers re-located today, and put the other axle back underneath the frame. Take a look at the massive undercut on one of the original hanger welds. I had not looked at it real close until today, and will have to grind it out and fix it. They have lasted since 1979, but how could you walk away from something like that?? Attached Images
Reply:That's not undercut, it's a flatfender Jeep! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Danny, that is another of my countless projects rusting away in the grass.I have a 79 K10 with an sm465 4speed and np205 case and a small block that I saved to swap into the willy's...Maybe some day...If there is anything left.
Reply:I have a '46 CJ2A with a 283, currently dissasembled, soon tho I hope.Tim Beeker.
Reply:wood hauling trailer !!   better box those lights.   oak vs red plastic not good.daye
Reply:Originally Posted by daddyDanny, that is another of my countless projects rusting away in the grass.I have a 79 K10 with an sm465 4speed and np205 case and a small block that I saved to swap into the willy's...Maybe some day...If there is anything left.
Reply:Just an update on the trailer project.I dragged it in the garage today and got back to work.Installed the crossmembers from the front of the deck, to the first axle.It will get more complicated around the axles. I'm gonna make some fenders I think.The addition of the first crossmember made a huge difference in the stiffness of the tongue area. I think it will be plenty strong.Pics are a couple of overall views showing the crossmembers installed, and then a closeup of a weld, since everyone loves closeups.1/8" 7018 @ approx 115 amps DCEP Attached Images
Reply:The weld looks really good.Is the Craftsman welder actually a Miller?And do you have any problems with arc blow on that machine.  My damn Lincoln gets to dancin' around on the DC side no matter where you put the ground (same amps DCEP, same rod).  It works fine on AC with an AC 7018 rod.I'm thinking I have to run shorter leads on DC.  I don't know.  Your leads lood like what came with the machine."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm, I don't think it's a miller. It says made in Italy on the front.I have not had any problems with arc blow at all. The DC side is definitely the better way to run 7018. It runs alot smoother, not that a cheap buzz box can really be described as smooth.The leads are original equip. I made a long 50A extension cord to get to stuff. If you haven't tried it yet, uncoiling the leads may help. At work, one of the machines I use has well over 100' of leads with no arc blow problems normally. I did have to go to AC with that one time when I was making a mount bracket for a 200# (give or take 50#) permanant magnet. Talk about arc blow! It was impossible. The arc would literally come off the rod at 90*.  It was bad on AC too, but I got it done.I've had the little craftsman at home for years and it has more than paid back the price of admission.  I have thought of upgrading to a better machine, but until the right deal at auction or craigslist comes along I'm satisfied.
Reply:Here's a pic of mine.  I made it from a 17' Coachman.  Cut 2' from the rear, added a few stronger cross members, replaced the tires, added side rails and a winch to load "dead" mowers, etc.  Needs to be painted again. Attached Images
Reply:Looks good paweldor. Thanks for the pics.
Reply:Hi Daddy Nice work on that trailer. Did you ever fix those brakes? If you have a notherntool near you they have lots of trailer parts at good prices.I use my fladbed car hauler behind my Ford/New Holland 345D when hauling wood around the farm.Say Pa nice looking place, trailer, RV.Last edited by specter; 12-30-2008 at 10:27 AM.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Daddy,Great job on the trailer conversion.I wish we were closer as I have the perfect material for some fenders for that rig that I would be more than happy to donate to the cause.Keep the photos coming.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:If you have a Redneck Trailer near you, you can get just about anything trailer related that you need from them.  TSC has some stuff.Good luck on your project.  Mine is rated at 5000 # gross.  I have 2 sets of ramps for mine also.  Used to carry my New Holland L225 Skid Loader with no problem.  Don't know about attempting to carry my Case 1835C though.
Reply:Say Pa nice looking place, trailer, RV.[/QUOTE]Thanks.
Reply:Daddy, that's a nice looking bead.Pa, that is a nice looking trailer.Samm, the length of your leads has nothing to do with arc blow on DC. Trust me on that.
Reply:specter, I haven't looked at the brakes yet. I'm going to wait till I have all the wiring done so I can check everything out thoroughly.Duane, Thanks for the offer, I'm off this week, so perhaps I'll take a ride down and pick that up!Oldtimer, Thanks for the compliment. That means alot to me coming from you.I did get the rest of the crossmembers on today, and almost went broke at my local steel supply. Nearly $200 bucks for two measly sticks of 1/4" by 6" flat stock. What is this world coming to ? Sorry no pics. Probably tomorrow.Originally Posted by daddyspecter, I haven't looked at the brakes yet. I'm going to wait till I have all the wiring done so I can check everything out thoroughly.Duane, Thanks for the offer, I'm off this week, so perhaps I'll take a ride down and pick that up!Oldtimer, Thanks for the compliment. That means alot to me coming from you.I did get the rest of the crossmembers on today, and almost went broke at my local steel supply. Nearly $200 bucks for two measly sticks of 1/4" by 6" flat stock. What is this world coming to ? Sorry no pics. Probably tomorrow.
Reply:Some more progress...I finished the crossmembers, capped them with side rails: 6" by 1/4" flat, and started making fender parts.Pic one is an overview of crossmembers and side rails.Two is a shot of the side rails. Three is an overhead weld closeup.  This ties the bottom of the crossmember to the side rail. Four is the start of making fender parts. Since I don't have a brake, I score the back of the sheet where I want to bend with a cutting wheel and...Five is the "redneck brake". The crossmember of the trailer was handy.More to come... Attached Images
Reply:Next we have some fender parts cut out, and some different angles showing the pieces roughly mocked up in position. I may have to make rounded openings on the outside of the fender.Thats all for now folks! Attached Images
Reply:planning on driving over the fenders? looks good keep on posting pics.
Reply:Originally Posted by flatbustedbrokeplanning on driving over the fenders? looks good keep on posting pics.
Reply:I love it! The square-ish fenders give it that 'tank' look. Gorgeous trailer you're building, keep it up!MikeConstans Fides et IntegritasLincoln Weldanpower 150 ACAirco Aircomatic MIGet CAV II w/ spoolgunMillermatic 30a wirefeeder
Reply:A little more work on the fender. I cut a fuzz too much off of one of the pieces and had to "put it back". Still not perfect, but close enough for the girls I go out with. Next post... Attached Images
Reply:A few more pics of it all tacked up. I thought about making a template to cut the radius, but ended up just doing it freehand. I have not done any grinding on that yet. I'm still not sure if I like the opening or not. I may fill in the triangles where the fender meets the rails.OOPS! forgot the pics.
Reply:Here ya go.In the last pic, I am going to add a stake pocket and some type of triangulation in between the tires. Still kicking the details around.Sometimes I spend more time trying to decide how to do things than actually working . Attached Images
Reply:I'm glad you posted some pics today.  I didn't realize you'd gotten this far along, the thread was down a ways and I didn't see the posts on the 2nd.The piece of plate along the side ties the cross beams together real well.  They won't want to tip.  Kind of like X bracing on a wood floor joist system.  It looks really clean too.The fenders are wayI'm like you.  I spend a lot of time looking, and thinking"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I forgot to askIs it gonna be 96 or 102 wide?"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm, It's actual width is ninety two and one quarter inches!I did not cut the salvaged cross members, so it is what it is. It should work out nice. I am ok with it being under 8'. I shouldn't get any flak for being over width, and it is still wide enough to haul a fullsize truck. Over weight, now that is another story...
Reply:Personally, I really don't like 102's.  It's hard to keep the pickup aligned in the lane well enough to keep the trailer from goin' over the centerline, or on the shoulder.Because your fenders are fully functional as a drive over structure,  the width shouldn't matter.  Some long sheet goods might not fit between them but that's ok too.  As long as you have 5' between the inside of the fenders it should handle popular sizes of sheet metal, and you only need 4' for plywoodI think it's gonna be a damn nice trailer"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hell,, you can lean wide stuff on the fender.  They'll definitely take it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Well, I finalized the wheelwell opening shape, added a stake pocket with a brace to the frame, and finished welding the first fender. Now all I gotta do is make another one!I did not attach the assembly yet so I can reference it more easily for #2.First set of pics:1. Adding triangles to the wheel openings.(Can you guess where they came from?)2. Prep for welding the triangle on.3,4,5. A couple of shots of the welds.I did weld the backside as well, but no pics.More next post... Attached Images
Reply:A couple more pics:1. An outside corner weld on the fender.2. Another, showing the rear.3. The stake pocket. ( 2x4  tubing ) 4. Front showing the transition to the side rails.5. Finished fender in place. Attached Images
Reply:The fender wheel openings definately needed those filler pieces daddy.  Looking really good.Someone may have asked already but what decking dimension does that front and rear riser allow for?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:duane, the "riser" is two inches, the same as the side rails' height above the crossmembers. So, the currently spec'd 8/4 rough sawn oak should flush out nicely at the toe of the fender ramps.Depending on how quick I find the decking I want, It might get thrown into service with plywood as a temporary solution.
Reply:Keep losing my  connection.Were you happy with the penetration on the edge welds along the upper corners of the fender?"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm, I welded the inside fillets first and then the outside corners. I was a bit scared of blowing through so I didn't linger too long, but I'm satisfied with what I've got. I don't remember if I said this already, but the side rails with the cutouts are the only part that is quarter inch stock. The rest of the fender is only 1/8" sheet. Not too tough to get good pen.I did actually do a test run on some scrap first. I only made the fillet, not the outside corner, and twisted it into a pretzel in the vice. It survived. 3/32" 7018 @ approx. 85 amps by the way.
Reply:I wondered how far back it would burn into the top flat part of the fender.  I didn't even consider doing the fillet on the backside first.  Live and learn  ThanksTo top it off, I thought the only weld was the one on the outside of the fender  Get a grip Sam  (here I am thinkin' about how come it isn't beveled on the vertical piece etc.  I'm losin' itI've never actually made a corner weld like that.  The only outside corners I've ever done is capping the end of tubing with no access to the backside of the weld.  That's weird, but I can't remember one occasion where I had to do one."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:It's been a while, but I finally got back to work on this. Nothing new, just working on the second fender. I did try a  "new to me" rod today. The well known Lincoln Excalibur in 1/8" 7018. I liked it. It runs a little more spatter than the Hobart 418 that I'm used to, but seems to be incredibly strong. The spatter balls are almost impossible to chip off. I might be too hot, I only ran a half dozen rods and didn't mess around with the heat too much. Anyhow, here are a few pics to keep all the weld junkies satisfied.These are the extension triangles for the outside edge of the wheel opening. 1/4" plate, beveled both sides, and ground after the first side for slag free full pen. I put about the same amount of heat into each side, and did not have much distortion.Enjoy.I did not get a shot of the weld on the backside, just the prep, and sorry for the fuzzy pic. The weld looks the same as the top. Attached Images
Reply:good lookin trailer there. those fenders are sweet!!
Reply:Glad you had time to get back to the trailer.  Hard to fit things into a schedule sometimes.It seems to be coming along pretty good.  Those fenders gotta be a real bear to handle, bein' 1/4 plate.  Heavy stuff.I've used the Excalibur since I first switched over to using DC.  I swear by it.  It seems to allow you to really flow the metal where you want it.  I tried the Hobart, and found it not to my liking, seems to have a fast burnoff rate.  On my machine the 1/8 seems to like 105amps for flat butt joints, and butt joints on tubing.  You can go nice and slow and let the metal fill.  For fillets it seems to run real good at 115amps.  At 125amps I start to get a lot of spatter although I get a flatter bead.  If my machine was adjustable like yours, I suspect somewhere around 120amp would be perfect.  And it runs so quiet, it's almost like listening to music  The arc seems really gentle, but it does a good job of digging in.And it comes in a cool, handy dandy, resealable can, useful for a million other purposes  At $24 a can, it better be useful"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Nice looking trailer, kinda partial to the old Willys myself. I like the drive over fenders and the width is nice too, I've got a 16' I bought cheap a few years back with tubing sides on it, only 77 between, real pain and unless it's real tall and has skinny tires, ya don't even want to think about a fullsize on it. Flatbed is definately the way to go, with the option of removeable sidedboards you've got the best of it all!Rob H.