New cutting edge, old bucket?

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A friend asked me to put on a new cutting edge on his combo. I ordered a bolt on thinking I could just blow some holes in his bucket and bolt it up. I hung it on the bucket and noticed it will have to be welded to fill in the gap in front and because I do not have a flat surface to work with. What would be the best way to do this? There was no replaceable blade on it, just the welded on bucket edge. Would you remove some of the bucket edge and build up a "ramp" with weld? I am pretty sure the absolute correct way would be to cut out/off the welded on bucket edge, replace and weld in new, and then bolt on the cutting edge. However this machine is old, not used very much and will not outlast this new edge. So I would like to do it nice with what I have because I don't think he wants to put any more money into this project. He has been using the bucket like that for the past 13 years I've known him. Any suggestions from some of the heavy equipment guys here?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Thats definitely not the right edge for that bucket from what I can see. I'd guess that edge was for a much larger bucket than the one shown.The big gap in the rear will cause you nothing but head aches the way you have it mounted right now. If you back drag with the bucket you will force dirt between the old edge and the new one with that big overhang if it's not cut down and welded solid. I also notice what looks like a good sized crack in the right side where the old edge meets the bucket.Honestly it looks like that old edge should have been dealt with MUCH sooner. I'd be real tempted to chop out the old edge and weld that new one in from scratch. Also I might be tempted to chop down that bolt on edge to shorten it up if you can't return and exchange it. The place we use for teeth and edges is usually real good about swapping out wrong items as long as they are new/unused, and not special order..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ya know DSW, the machine is old and I had a hard time finding something for it. It is a Ford and the New Holland dealer wasn't much help and VERY expensive. I found a JD dealer who stocks alot of these and sells them pretty reasonable. Yeah it should have been looked at LONG ago but it wasn't and here is what I have to work with. I know the new edge is too wide so I will have to cut some off the side/sides. You think I should cut some of the back off so it is flush? At least get rid of the beveled edge? I was worried about back dragging but also the gap in front. I know packed in material can play he!! on a bucket, not to mention if he starts prying on something with the edge. I dont think I can totally cut out the existing edge because I can't picture the new one fitting very well. Would you maybe cut the existing back maybe an inch or two so I can feather it or build up a ramp with weld?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:I'd vote for returning that edge.  Go to your local steel supplier and buy some grader blade (that's what they refer to it as here).  They sell it by the foot here.  It should be much cheaper than an implement dealer.  You can get it in all different thicknesses and widths.  Cut out the old and replace it with new.  It's not hard to do, just cut along the original weld, or if it is really bad cut back 1/2" from the weld.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Cut out the old edge, fit the new one in so it is fairly flush with the inside of the bucket & weld it solid.Make some wear strips that will be flush with the underside of the bucket & the new raised edge.  These wear strips should taper from the high spot on the new raised area of the blade, down to flush with the bottom of the bucket.  Shouldn't be more than about 5-6" in length.  Weld those solid also, both on the new blade & bottom of the bucket.Newly remodeled bucket will out last the machine it's attached to.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I was talking about ripping the width more than the length. We never get any of our cutting edges or teeth from a "dealer". We have a guy who sells nothing but edges, teeth and so on to heavy equipment companies, quarries, townships (They get the wear edges and corner protectors for plows from him as well as bucket teeth). A few inquires at larger contracting firms or local quarries my turn up some place like that near you. If push comes to shove My guy will even get edges cut to order and punched for odd equipment. Usually there's not much to doing a new edge. As Boostinjdm said, you basically just cut out the old and weld in the same place. The sides are the big key. Thats really where the edge gets its strength. Note the old edge is slightly wider than the sides. It's welded inside and out, preferably with 100% penetration. The floor is more just to keep things from getting ripped up. Everything looks reasonably straight so I don't see major issues with this. If you can weld to the old edge properly, you should be able to replace it no problem. Depending on how much use this gets, how much they want to spend, and if you can find the parts, I'd weld in a new punched front edge thats about the same thickness at the original (thinner than the curent new edge) and then get bolt on edges that match the new "floor". That way they can replace it in the future. If they are cheap, just weld in a new edge like was there originally and be done.PM sent...No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I think the last edge I did was something like 1/2" x 4" x 6' and it was something like $50-$60 worth of material.  It's been a while though so my numbers might be off, but that new edge you got in the pics is WAAAAY overkill.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Thats better than I remember. I just picked up a new 5/8" x6" corner protector for the plow @ $90 compared to $45 or so I paid 8 years ago. It is however, probably AR400 or better. The 5/8" x 6" cutting edge is going on 8 years now of running streets and still has a ton of like left. I don't even want to think what thats going to cost to replace..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I've never done any heavy equipment (just prefacing here).  However, I would say if you want to use that edge, pull out the OA of the plasma, cut it in half or so length wise, cut it down to width, cut out the old edge (as said previously, cut back further past the weld if necessary) and weld it nicely onto the bucket as a full replacement instead of attached to the existing (and very worn out) edge.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:If you don't want to or can't return it, rip it in half, remove the old existing edge and as Boostinjdm said cut it back 1/2" or so past the old weld. It's wide enough so it shouldn't twist or bow too much if you do rip it. Use the other half to reinforce the corners up to the blade edge. It shouldn't take more than an hour maybe an hour and a half to do that and you'll have a decent looking job when you're done. You don't want people to say you did a hack job.Depending on the availability we usually make out our edges for our loaders from 1 to 1 1/4" plate and bevel the edge, a far sight cheaper than buying a factory edge. Not only that but by the time we get the bucket it's usually completely wrecked or worn into the actual bucket so it's a custom fit....MikeLast edited by mrmikey; 01-30-2010 at 06:24 AM.
Reply:I would return/sell that edge... you need to gouge off the old cutting edge and i would track down some old snow plow cutting edges and weld those on in a strip.... that will be cheap and easy... you should be able to find cutting edges at any local snow plow businessThat old edge is useless sitting on there you dont want an edge that big and fat anwyays it will make it so annoying when you are picking up trap rock and the pile is getting small...Last edited by Silverado; 01-30-2010 at 11:31 AM.
Reply:I would cut out the old edge no matter what you replace it with. YOU COULD heat the ends and bend them up.  This makes an awesome edge.  You could rip it in half or buy the right edge.I am doing a 60" bobcat bucket on Monday.  Look for pics.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I used to work for a NH dealer ship, those cutting edges are always oversized.  I have replaced a lot of them, and a few on other brands.  You have to cut the old one off.   Center the cutting edge and weld it in.  The leftover on the ends is meant to be heated and hammered up to form the outside edge against the side of the bucket.  Then weld the side.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I have read and agree or understand the direction everyone is comming from..., personally if you are happy with the price you paid for the edge, Rip it lengthwise to match the existing weld with the spot in which you have it positioned ( looks good ). You could also rip it along the edge of the bolt holes as long as you have enough in front, definately remove the old weld-on and replace. I would invest in some sort of wear strips, something is better than nothing. I work at a John Deere dealership and am here to tell you that cutting that edge will NOT be easy, possible but nasty, grind all that thick a## paint and turn up the juice. I deal with customers such as the owner of your bucket often and am fully aware of the situation  you are in. No matter what you decide, good luck to you.
Reply:Lugweld said it.....When I  cut the old edge out, I cut back a little from the original weld so I get a nice straight line.  It really doesn't matter.    I use an arc air.  Used to use a cutting torch.  I just can't get the control with a plasma.I picked this up friday on my way home from work.David Last edited by David R; 01-30-2010 at 03:43 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by fchesser78How is your bucket comming along stick-man? What direction did you choose?
Reply:When you pick up the edge be sure to talk to them about what the recommendations are for installation. Since it looks like you are working outside in the cold, and the edge is most likely an AR or T1 type steel, and of medium thickness, you should probably plan on some preheat at a minimum. Those steels at below freezing temps, is asking for issues. Even keeping the cutting edge inside at 70 deg for a day will help if nothing else. I'm guessing they will recommend 7018/8018 in stick, or an 70/80 series mig wire. Thats roughly what I vaguely remember from the last one I had to work with. If it's coming from a dealer, the salesman may not know squat. You might be better talking to the service tech. If it's coming from a place that knows their stuff, they should be able to give you the basic info you'll need..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Being a double sided edge, the one  you have looks like a bolt on plow edge that you can turn over.Glad you are getting the right part.  DSW has it, preheat it before welding.  If you don't it could crack next to the welds.  Just warm it up with a torch enough to get the moisture out of it. (100*f)  David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:300 degree pre heat and maintain thru the welding process. Couple of stiffners diagonal to hold the bottom from getting a belly in it.Gradual cool down after the welding is done. Start welding in the middle welding out toward the ends changing sides every 6" or so. When I put the stiffiners in I will comealong the bottom so it is arched up a little.
Reply:I was figuring on preheating. I was planning on using 7018 or if a calm day I could run 70-S6, but it will probably be the 7018. Are the braces important? I didn't think it would sag or warp. I will tack it good, start in the middle, jump around and keep the preheat between electrodes."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:I have the proper edge."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Cutting off the old edge. My first time using my Arcair K3000, @ approx 165A, DC+ with copper coated 5/32" DC+ carbons. Very cool process. I would describe it as a plasma with the ability to control the cut depth like you would with a torch, only burning thru the surface piece of steel. I was working alone and a little nervous so it might look jagged. I put up some snow soaked plywood to control the sparks. Sometimes, the carbon would not cut, almost like trying to get a DC 7018 started with an AC buzzbox. Then I would let the carbon cool and it would be fine. Didn't know if that had anything to do with my welder being single phase. The Arcair manual says you might have a problem with using a single phase welder, and three phase is recommended. Had some cuts where the arc was nice and smooth and I just knew thats what it was supposed to be like, (I think)!"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:just bought a used profax arc gouging torch,but no info with it.do you run it on dc with the carbon negative ? just leave the air running constant ? i cant even try it for a while as i'm in florida and all my toys are in michigan.
Reply:weve got a thermadyne arc air somethin or other at work.... i LOVE using it. i can gouge out old or broken welds quicker and cleaner with it than any other tool ive ever used. very little grinding or dress up required.   our concrete breakers have a 2x3x12 T1 foot on the bottom of a 1200 pound block of mild steel. can gouge one of those off in a few minutes. 120 psi of air and 400 amps on a 1/4 rod will send a beautiful fountain of liquid metal about 12 feet.  glad you like it, looks good
Reply:Originally Posted by boatbuoyjust bought a used profax arc gouging torch,but no info with it.do you run it on dc with the carbon negative ? just leave the air running constant ? i cant even try it for a while as i'm in florida and all my toys are in michigan.I am glad somebody piped up that the first cutting edge you had was one designed to be turned aroundwhen worn.Another tip with your Air Arc, grind your start stops or hit them with a needle scaler to remove thecarbon buildup, it will make it easier to get going again. When you get enough practice, it will look almost like a prepared bevel when you are done.Aeromax Service Truck w/ 6,000lb Crane to carry my toys.Miller Trailblazer 302'69 Lincoln SA-200A couple of Victor Jr's to make big pieces smaller..........
Reply:Originally Posted by David RDC Electrode +.  Just like laying down a bead except backwards. Electrode pointed in the direction of travel at least a 45* angle with air blowing out the jets underneath the carbon to blow away the slag created by the arc. I do love mine.David
Reply:Originally Posted by boatbuoythanks. couldn't find a manual to download.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manZT Fab found this for my carbon arc cutting post. Very informative, and I would save a copy because, I can never find it by just browsing their website.http://www.thermadyne.com/arcair_pdfs/89_250_008.pdf
Reply:I finally got a day to work on the bucket. ER70S-6, .045, 24V, 240 ipm, 75/25. "Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:I would have finished, but my buddy got out on the big pond and was too tired to fillet. So he stopped by my yard and dropped this laker (just a hair under 12lbs) and 15 perch. So i packed it up early so I could clean fish. I had part of that laker for dinner. Light rub of olive oil, citrus seafood seasoning and butter, in oven @ 425 F. Oh yippie, was it good."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Looks good. You can see the heat marks on the top side of the bucket..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Good job.  It looks nice and should last for a while.
Reply:Nice job!