how thin can a stick weld?

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Hi everyone, after my cl find sitting in the shed for past year I have my outlet installed and burning rods! Pictures to follow soon if I can figure how to do it from my phone.Basic info, its an ac National Welder with settings from 30 to 220(I think). First practice was 1/8 6011 at 75 amps on some 3/16 angle. Then I tried some 1/16 6013 on a lawn mower blade at about 40 amps. Those both looked ok I guess. Again when I figure how to post pics you all can judge.Now for the heart of my original question. With practice how thin of material should I be able to weld. The welds on my trailer fender have failed and I would like to tack it back to the frame, but I don't want to burn thru the sheet metal. Thanks in advance for your input.
Reply:Most guys can weld 1/16" with stick with practice and small rods. I know several really skilled guys who can weld a bit thinner than that, but it takes a lot of skill.Part of your issue might be that you will have to weld out of position ( vertical, possibly overhead). Most hobby welders don't do well in those positions and have a bit more trouble.Try and keep your arc on the thicker material of the frame and "wash" your bead over onto the thin sheet, or set it up so the thin sheet overlapps the thick material and do a lap weld..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the quick response! The repair will need to be done vertical because of the location, its behind the wheels where the weld failed. Need to see if I can find some scrap close to the same thickness and do some more practice. Do you know what most landscape trailer fenders are built out of?
Reply:Trailer fender thickness varies. I would say around the thickest being 10 gauge, 1/8" unless the drive over type. You can try goggle and see if manufactures post thickness. My small trailer is 16 gauge. A picture would help. Depending on break could you bolt or rivet ?? You don't want to end up replacing fenders.
Reply:Practice with the material in the same approximate position that you will need to do the repair in. That means vertical, and preferably down low. Personally my 1st choice for rods would be 7014 or 7018 followed by 6013 in 1/16". ( You might find cutting the rods in 1/2 so they aren't as flexible to be some help) I know a few very skilled guys who would choose 6011 for this because it's a fast freeze rod, but my skill set isn't good enough with that rod on thin sheet . Keep in mind if the fender is badly rusted, chances of this working is probably very low. If it simply needs to be rewelded because the fender flexed and the metal broke due to fatigue, you stand a fighting chance as long as the fit up is decent.Gas mig would be a better choice if you know someone with a machine you can borrow. Most newer welders have an easier time with thin material and mig..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:18-20 ga would be thinnest I could do everytime without practice.  thinner than that I would have to an hour or so practicing to get my hand back into welding thin stuff.  I would use a 3/32 6011 for welding.  With this electrode, you make small circles and use your arc almost like you do with o/a and fusion weld.  there is some electrode melt off that will give you just enough filler.  sometimes it is too much melt off and you end up with a high spot you need to flush after welding.For 16ga and thicker, 6013 or 7014, if you want a prettier bead profile.  The slag is simply too hot and will cause headaches with melt through on thinner metal.  I don't use the 1/16 electrodes so I don't know about if they would melt through.
Reply:This is really helpful question and answers info, the kind of question that is hard to figure out from books because they can tell you what is theoretically possible, but you always wonder "yeah, but is that for pro's only, or is it something I can attain with a reasonable amount of practice?"Btw, not to be the Safety Nazi  but to the OP in case you were planning on reinstalling that mower blade instaead of just for practice beads, among the long list of critical welds such as trailer structural parts, gantry cranes and aircraft wings, I would add lawnmower blades.  In fact I'd rather sit under a gantry that I welded than be anywhere near a lawnmower blade that i welded.  No offense intended by this.  Good luck and enjoy your newly hooked up welder!
Reply:I'd attempt what you describe with 6010/11 and vertical down travel.  You can move quite a bit faster vertical down than you can vertical up.  faster, downhill travel will keep the heat from building up and burning through.  You might want to run some longer beads, or weld both sides if possible, to make up for the possiblity that the welds will be cold lapped in some places, or not well fused together.3/32" rods would work. 1/16", if you can find them, might be even better.X2 on washing the puddle from thick material onto thinner. A small MIG machine would be ideal for this, if you can borrow one.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:@ Rodj, the mower blade was just scrap. I'm with you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near an amateur welded blade.Also I may have misused the term vertical, guess it would be more horizontal, but not flat. Just hadn't seen the term horizontal yet.
Reply:Originally Posted by TomH@ Rodj, the mower blade was just scrap. I'm with you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near an amateur welded blade.Also I may have misused the term vertical, guess it would be more horizontal, but not flat. Just hadn't seen the term horizontal yet.
Reply:After looking at the Northern Tool site I'm guessing its probably 16 guage sheet. I have ran some self tappers to keep the metal off my tires. Second time doing that. First time held for a good while, but at the landfill a branch got hung up pulling off the load and stripped it off the screws. Riveting will be the next best option if I can't stick weld. Or maybe I just came up with an excuse for my next welder
Reply:New fenders?Miller Performance AD Helmet - Camo Edition Soon to have: Jackson HSL 100 - Forest Digi CamoMiller Thunderbolt AC/DC((Currently at welding school))
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=15741I have never had success using 1/16" rods. I think it limits your current so much and you will be at the top end of the rod capacity if welding 1/16". Consider too,  you will be attaching the fender to thicker material. Butt welds with 1/16 are a different story...
Reply:generally i don't weld thin metal fenders to the frame on trailers because the vibration on them will eventually cause cracking. i have had better luck building mounts and bolting them on. the heavier mounts handle the vibration better. jmo225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Originally Posted by TomH@ Rodj, the mower blade was just scrap. I'm with you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near an amateur welded blade.Also I may have misused the term vertical, guess it would be more horizontal, but not flat. Just hadn't seen the term horizontal yet.
Reply:Also, Lance is ChuckE2009 on YouTube and has some great stick welding videos if you're interested.  I find his videos to be some of the best.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by jbmprodsgenerally i don't weld thin metal fenders to the frame on trailers because the vibration on them will eventually cause cracking. i have had better luck building mounts and bolting them on. the heavier mounts handle the vibration better. jmo
Reply:@ Rodj, is that Lincoln Electric site? Did a quick search on their site this morning and couldnt find books. As much as I would like to add a welder, I think my next investment will be a class or two at our local tech school. I was hoping for the May class, but don't think I can swing it till the July class.
Reply:How about welding a couple of heavy gauge straps to the frame and then riveting (or bolting) the fender to the straps?Ken
Reply:I regularly weld 14ga.  I use 3/32 6010 rod.  The 6010 will dig quite a bit so it's probably not the best rod to learn thin stuff on.  However I have a 50lbs box that I already bought.  Close fit up is needed.  You won't be able to fill any gaps without eating away at the thin material.  If you're not careful you'll just end up chasing the hole all over the place.  There's not a lot of mass, so the thin stuff heats up quickly.  If it starts eating too much, you may have to stop and let it cool off for a few seconds.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by k45How about welding a couple of heavy gauge straps to the frame and then riveting (or bolting) the fender to the straps?Ken
Reply:I didnt read all the posts cause its past my bed time but I have welded on quarter panels and loaned out my machine to some friends to do sheet metal work years ago. The trick is the right rod (very small and if I remember right only about 9 inches long)Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.