SMAW Aluminum

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Has anyone here done this? Is it as bad as everyone makes it sound?
Reply:I've done it, and done some gorgeous T/Inside corner joints with it.  Problem is that it burns so fast, I had to practically fall into the joint to keep an ok arc length.  Don't know if I would be brave enough to try any butt joints with the stuff.
Reply:I've run through 3/4 lb. of Al SMAW rods playing with different DC reverse polarity current settings and made some decent looking beads on butt joints, but they have a lot of porosity and usually fail a hammer whack test.  As stated previously, the rod feed rate is surprisingly quick.  The flux fumes are nasty.  Pre-weld cleanliness and oxide removal are important.  Pre-heat of parts to be welded seemed to improve weld quality.  I haven't mastered it yet, but it can be done.TeddCoHTP Microcut 400 & Invertig 160DC  Smith Dual Guard MD-510 OA Rig  Lincoln SP135+  Hobart Stickmate LX 235/160
Reply:What size rods were you guys using? What was the amperage like? Is it alot higher than it would be for steel electrodes?
Reply:The weldment must be very clean. Learning to use the rod is not diffacult.The rods are VERY VERY suseptable to moisture and are expensive. Like $60 per pound !If you left them out of  an air tight container over night all of the flux will have fallen off.I am not exagerating.They can be very handy for field repair of sheet rock step stools etc.,.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomLike $60 per pound !
Reply:Back when I was a youngun, I convinced my dad to let me weld a crack in our pontoon boat.  I was just through 9 months of welding at the local trade school and had more confidence than skill, it turned into a mess, dad said punt and took it to the local welding shop, haven't tried alum SMAW since.
Reply:I just called a friend from the supply place, I can get a 1 lb. box of 5/32 4043 for about 30 bucks. I think Im gonna try this next weekend.Last edited by Burnit; 12-18-2008 at 09:52 PM.
Reply:It's a lot less than $60/lbs. Try Ram Supply.It's not hard, just different, you'll never really see the puddle, you have to travel fast forward and feed the rod fast. With a little practice they run pretty slick.JTMcC.
Reply:I asked a bunch of guys on the site here about it. Got some good advice.  Found a pretty good deal(well relatively good) on Blue Demon(or some such crap)rods at the LWS, then found out that Tubby had shipped all of his scrap aluminum just before the market went down.  So it's still on hold.I hope somebody can post some pics.  I'm dyin to try it."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I'm gonna try this soon, I will post pics in this thread.
Reply:I can get a 1 lb. box of 5/32 4043 for about 30 bucks
Reply:I've used them with good results, but I really prefer mig or tig for it. You do have to go fast and hot. You run them at about the same amperage as the corresponding size 7018. I even managed to run them uphill on a vertical butt on some pretty thin stuff with good results. The main thing is getting used to the travel speed. Prep is just as important with smaw as with gtaw.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Oh yeah Jolly, I would rather MIG or TIG too, this isn't really researching an alternative, I just wanna try it, you don't hear much about it.And if I end up running some decent beads then I have it in the bag 'o' tricks.
Reply:It can be done, we call them 'gull s**t rods, as in it usually looks like seagull s**t when you're done.I have done a not too bad looking bead with them but it's more the exception than the rule.As Donald said they have to be extremely dry. The best luck I've had is running the torch over them as well as what you're welding for a couple of seconds.....Mike
Reply:If you take the time to learn how to use them, they look quite nice.I can say that any welding rod produces ugly welds when run by people who don't know what they are doing.JTMcC.
Reply:Stick welding aluminum isn't hard, it's just a lot different than welding steel. After you learn what you have to do you can run some nice looking beads with stick. It works well on thicker material. Forget using it on thin aluminum, you will just make a mess. Use preheat. If you try to weld on cold material it just makes a mess  that you have to clean up and redo. When the parent metal is at the right heat you can get a smooth, solid weld. It is old, old technology but interesting to know how to do I guess.Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-20-2008 at 10:31 AM.
Reply:I posted a few pictures of my experience a while back.  Last time I was going to weld something with Al stick, I got all set up struck a few arcs-- then asked myself why...? went and got my spoolgun and finished my job.I don't think you move forward particularly fast as the downward feed is faster-- At least my experience on 1/8" steel.  Also, I kept some mig pliers handy because when you break an arc the flux coats the tip, use to  pliers to break the flux off the tip.  Tapping the rod will result in a bent rod and chipped flux elsewhere on the rod.My rods can also be used as brazing rods, so old rods missing flux could still be used by somebody.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderMy rods can also be used as brazing rods, so old rods missing flux could still be used by somebody.
Reply:I have ti disagree again. They run fine on thin aluminum. I've repaired quite a few small water storage tanks that had corroded thru in fact that's where I had to learn to use the rods. And in my experience forward travel is at a very brisk pace. I've only burned maybe 50 or 60 lbs over the years but that's quite a few small repairs.Very pretty welds can be made with those rods.JTMcC.
Reply:"What size rods were you guys using?" 3/32" Inweld A-3 (E4043)"What was the amperage like?" For one of their Al SMAW rods, Lincoln recommends 20-55 amps for 3/32, 45-125 for 1/8, 60-170 for 5/32, and 85-235 for 5/32.  Got better results with lower currents, but harder to start and hold arc."Is it alot higher than it would be for steel electrodes?"  Base on the overlap of those current ranges, you need to set the current to match the work pieces' thickness, joint type, and the electrode diameter.  Too many variables to say if it is higher or lower than steel electrodes.Last edited by Teddco; 12-20-2008 at 08:26 PM.TeddCoHTP Microcut 400 & Invertig 160DC  Smith Dual Guard MD-510 OA Rig  Lincoln SP135+  Hobart Stickmate LX 235/160
Reply:I went to visit the thieves at Airgas today, the guy on the phone told me he had 1lb. boxes of Radnor "Alum 43" in 1/8". So I asked him to set one aside and I would swing by on my way home. I get there and it is actually a plastic blister package with five rods in it. So I got two of those. I am going to put them in the oven tomorrow and burn 'em after work.We'll see what happens  Attached Images
Reply:Blue Demon makes 'em too. (I think I have the name right)"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hurry up! I wana see the end result.
Reply:Well I couldn't do it today, we got more snow and everybody an their brother broke a plow today. Which is good for us I guess.I got the rods in the oven, that was about as far as I got.Tomorrow definitely.Wanna see this, I've been afraid to try it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:last time i used it i was out on a mobile job i had to go and get some gas for the welder the store was a block down so i just left everything out and walk,on the way back it started to pour down rain.It wash the flux right off so  i had 2 pounds to put in the trash  paid $18.00 a pound 1/8
Reply:So we knocked off early today and I got to try this out. The rods were still in the oven, nothing goofy had happened to them (I was wondering about the flux). The rod is 1/8" Radnor brand "Alum 43"I sheared up some test plates, the bottom plates are all 1/4" and the vertical plate is 3/16".I tacked them with the TIG welder, I didn't know how this was going to go.Today I am using our Syncrowave 351, Gonna start at 100 amps or close to it, I sat there playing with that knob tryin to get it to read 100 for 2 minutes before I said screw it and took the picture Ok first bead, no preheat on the plate around 100 amps, I left the slag on, well its more like flux really. The package said that you could braze with these rods, its smelled like brazing flux, it caked on there like cement water. I wanted you guys to see what it looked like, its a pain to get off.Same bead chipped off, Looked real cold, ran like crap. Did this one by feel, couldn't see anything, that flux makes a messLast edited by Burnit; 12-24-2008 at 03:27 PM.
Reply:This at 140 amps still no preheat on the plate. It runs better, and now I can actually see a puddle.Another at 140 ampsOk, fire up the burn table and heat the next two up. 400 degrees.140 Amps, plate is around 400 degrees. I can see the puddle, I have control.Looks alright, Ran outta time at the shop. I want to cut this plate and put it in the press, see what happens
Reply:Even with the preheat it ran weird. Not crappy, just weird. That brazing flux on the rod bubbles and pops, and you are feeding the rod very fast.On the last two, the flux actually began to act consistently enough that I could really see the puddle and watch it wet the edges. That was the hardest part, finding the right "way"with the arc length and rod angle, to get the flux to open up and let me see what was going on.The flux was hard as a rock, swinging the chipping hammer at it just put dimples on the plate through the crap.I ran the plate under water and scrubbed it with a SS brush and the stuff turned to mud and came right off.Kinda neat.Last edited by Burnit; 12-24-2008 at 03:29 PM.
Reply:After the initial preheat, does the interpass(I think that's the right term) temp hold steady as you're welding.  IE does the arc put enough heat into the metal to keep the temp up, or would a guy have to preheat again for a long weld, or a fillet on the other side of the plate?  Stupid question I guess"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Thats not a stupid question. I dunno. If for some reason I had to run a long bead I would imagine that I would have to spend so much time between sticks cleaning the flux off that i would have to hit the next part of the joint with the torch to bring it back up to temp. On the other side of the plate though for sure, I could see that working.I want to try this again and get better at it, just in case. But at this point I will avoid using this at all costs. But I have not run into a situation yet where it was my only choice.Last edited by Burnit; 12-25-2008 at 12:41 AM.Reason: Cuz I had to
Reply:Friday I'm headin' for the LWS, gonna score some Blue Demon, and see if Tubby might have some scrap left.  I'm stoked.  It looks doable for a guy like me"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIt looks doable for a guy like me
Reply:Never Aluminum."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Burnit,  Nice work with the test and the camera work!I used to be a pretty good stick welder but I can see why one would call it Gull S#!t and with most situations I would use a spool gun or an inverter tig (like my new toy)  Heck I rented a dynasty for a week for $150 and I would burn up that much in AL rod and the material to patch my mess up so I could tig it!  I had never run a tig torch (at all on AL) until last week and after an hour I could at least run a horizontal bead that would not fall apart.  I learned from you that I would never put my self in a situation that would require stick welding Aluminum  (I would just call you)TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:I want to cut this plate and put it in the press, see what happens
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010Burnit, Looking at the last of your welds I would say you are an expert now....