When is steel thick enough to need to bevel?

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I am working on another project around the ranch and as usual, the only criteria is that I use what is available and laying around.  I am looking for something to fabricate a hitch for a heavy implement that I am building and have found some 3 x 5 angle iron that is pretty thick.  It is around 5/16" thick at the edges and around 4 feet long.  I am thinking about cutting it in half, flipping one over on to the other and welding the edges together to make a good thick piece of tubular steel.I am using a Lincoln arc welder and 1/8" 6011 rods.  I have not used these above 60 amps since everything up to now has been thin stock and small pipe.Is this steel too thick to get complete penetration without beveling the edges?  How hot should I run the current to do this job?Can't think of any other questions since I don't know what I don't know.  But you all do and I appreciate your advice.
Reply:I bevel everything above 1/8th inch if it is going to be a CJP weld.
Reply:Bevel it. Can't do any harm, right. Especially since you can't get to the back side. Leave a penny gap to get your root though. 200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:What the first two guys said plus......  For 6011, try 100 amps (AC) for flat welds. 90 amps on DC+ works for me.  If your welding vertical uphill, try decreasing the voltage by 5-10% Just my opinion and what works for me. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Mshearne, if I understand what you're trying to do, you don't need to bevel it.  When you put the two pieces of angle together, touch the inner edges of the corners together and no more.  It's a little hard to describe properly, but if you do it right and your steel is really 5/16" thick, the finished piece of rectangular tubing will be 3-5/16" tall by 5-5/16" wide.Maybe somebody has a picture to reference what I'm trying to describe.I usually run 1/8" 6011/6010 at around 90 amps.  For your situation I would skip the 60xx series entirely and go for a 1/8" 7018 at around 130 amps - maybe higher.Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you have a lot of experience welding.  If that's true, remember that the tongue on an implement is highly stressed.  If/when it comes apart, bad things can happen.  You might consider having a welder friend give you a hand with this.Last edited by tbone550; 04-21-2012 at 11:00 PM.
Reply:I recommend 60* inclusive bevel (30 on each side) with a 1/8" root (thats the right way)But you could seriously make it work by beveling the joints 3/4 of the way through the thickness of your angle legs, butt it tight, run it hot, and keep it flat.You'll do good. Launce-CWI
Reply:You should be running 1/8" rod at 110-130 amps. Good rule of thumb is to convert the fraction to decimal form and that gives you a good starting amperage. Ie; 1/8" rod is .125 so start at 125 amps then you can adjust accordingly.1973 Lincoln SA 200, Already replaced shunt coils, Idle board (SOLD)1984 Miller Dialarc 250HF, Miller water cooler, 250 AMP water cooled torch, you know the worx.
Reply:Originally Posted by TuscanyYou should be running 1/8" rod at 110-130 amps. Good rule of thumb is to convert the fraction to decimal form and that gives you a good starting amperage. Ie; 1/8" rod is .125 so start at 125 amps then you can adjust accordingly.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeThis is true...for 7018 but not for 6010/6011. 1/8 6010/6011 should be ran at the same amperage you run 3/32 7018 at. For me I'd be running 1/8 6010/6011 at 85-90 amps.
Reply:"When is steel thick enough to need to bevel?"any all
Reply:[QUOTE=lsoult;1065191]I recommend 60* inclusive bevel (30 on each side) with a 1/8" root (thats the right way)But you could seriously make it work by beveling the joints 3/4 of the way through the thickness of your angle legs, butt it tight, run it hot, and keep it flat.Launce....way over doing it, like most do. Most angle comes with a  rounded edge anyways. Once he gets done welding both beveled corners it will have some camber and sweep issues.Classic 1D 200SAE 30086 SA 200Hyperthem 45Jancy Mag Force O/A Victor-GossCable's remote2-12" Mathey Dearman bevelersLN 25Miller Auto Set 211Wendy's Pancake/Jackson PipelinerNew Holland LS 180Great story man....tell it again!
Reply:Why not just buy a piece of square tubing and save the hassle?1973 Lincoln SA 200, Already replaced shunt coils, Idle board (SOLD)1984 Miller Dialarc 250HF, Miller water cooler, 250 AMP water cooled torch, you know the worx.
Reply:I know what your saying. Hadn't pictured it that way, but your right. It would sort of equal a 90* bevel. Good thinking.   Originally Posted by tbone550Mshearne, if I understand what you're trying to do, you don't need to bevel it.  When you put the two pieces of angle together, touch the inner edges of the corners together and no more.  It's a little hard to describe properly, but if you do it right and your steel is really 5/16" thick, the finished piece of rectangular tubing will be 3-5/16" tall by 5-5/16" wide.Maybe somebody has a picture to reference what I'm trying to describe.I usually run 1/8" 6011/6010 at around 90 amps.  For your situation I would skip the 60xx series entirely and go for a 1/8" 7018 at around 130 amps - maybe higher.Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you have a lot of experience welding.  If that's true, remember that the tongue on an implement is highly stressed.  If/when it comes apart, bad things can happen.  You might consider having a welder friend give you a hand with this.
Reply:the way angle is rounded at the edge , if it was a butt to a plate you could get in from the "open" side and no bevel needed..when you butt 2 angles together to make a box, you weld from the outside into a reverse bevel..not gonna be much there if anything..absolute no good for your purpose..use the material but grind some bevels ..as for heat watch the keyhole..if its too big use less heat..but 1/8 6011 at 60 amps is dead cold..Last edited by weldbead; 04-22-2012 at 05:17 AM.
Reply:Using 2 pieces of angle to make a tube makes for outside corners that are already beveled.   The edges of the angle are rounded and when fit together, just weld them with enough heat.   5/16" may or should take more than one pass.Done right it should look like a nice rounded corner with the other 2 corners of the "tube" square.Outside corners can be tricky to weld.  Its easy to burn through on the first pass.I would use 7018   either 3/32 at 85 amps or 1/8" at 125 to 135 amps.   6010 or 6011 at 125 amps will be EeeeHaaa!   (too hot for me)everybody has an opinion.To answer the original question, it depends on the joint configuration.  If you can weld all the way through to the inside with out a bevel, then its not needed.    Clean is needed for any weld.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Wow!!Thanks for all the advice.  Good advice.Tbone550 - I got the picture immediately.  Good idea if the steel is straight enough.  I also hadn't noticed that the ends of the angle are rounded, so IF I go this way, I'll have to see how it fits up.I do have some 1/8" 7018 on hand.  If I scrounge around and don't find anything else better, then I'll practice on a little bit of this stuff with both rods and see what works best.It would be nice if I could just go out and buy the material I needed (or wanted).  But, this is a cattle ranch and prices are up for the first time in over ten years.  Things have been pretty bad the last decade and fuel and feed prices just keep going up.  The owners of the ranch actually had to go to work because the ranch wasn't making it on its own.  That's why I am there.The tongue of the implement is really important.  This I agree with.  On many of the stress points of this project I will be re-enforcing my welds with bolts (just in case).I am a novice welder and my introduction to welding was with 2" pipe.  Not a good way to start welding, but I got a whole lot of good advice from this forum and it made the job possible.
Reply:It depends on what process you're using.
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearneIt would be nice if I could just go out and buy the material I needed (or wanted).  But, this is a cattle ranch and prices are up for the first time in over ten years.  Things have been pretty bad the last decade and fuel and feed prices just keep going up.