What process do I use to weld this....?

admin

Okay gentlemen and ladies,I have recently been picking up some jobs building security bars and such.  I am not new to decorative iron work, but have always made my own scrolls and pieces in the projects that I have done.  But I need some advice, because the more decorative I can make them, the  better they look.  The better they look, the more they sell.The problem"Generally you don't weld steel and cast iron together, but with the cast phenials and scolls that I have been using, there doesn't seem to be any other way.The company I buy from tells me not to use MIG but either braze(of course, a natural solution but slow and expensive), use Nirod, (more expensive), or a 6011(huh?) only.  Or just use epoxy made for steel.  No one solution seems to be right. Although I am not the first to come across this issue,  I just don't think any answer is satisfactory.  I had been using MIG to join the pieces in question before I started thinking about it.  Occasionally,  I would have one or two phenials crack or break off at the weld.  Whatever process I use,  the cast iron products will still be brittle..The issue is that there are cast steel product available, but usually it is much less economical to use.  I am trying to provide an economical yet attractive product for businesses such as doctor's offices and eating establishments.  So I need advice only on the aspects of welding the cast iron to the steel, not on using alternative materials unless it is similar in cost.  Remember there is ornate scroll work that may be involved, not just slipping some phenials on some bars or posts.Looking forward to your answers.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:MG Welding makes a number of products which would be suitable for welding cast iron to steel, including #289 W which is a wire for MIG use that comes in .035" diameter and runs on 98/2 Argon/Oxygen. It is good for all types of weldable cast iron including old, dirty, oily cast, and for joining cast iron to steel.They also have some copper-based stick rods which would work, and a lower temp. copper-based TIG rod (#382) which has a 50K tensile strength.The Messer site is:    (if I see it right)www.messer-mg.comI think Allstate and others also have suitable products available; I happened to have this catalog handy and starting using the MG products long ago, with no disappointments.
Reply:To weld the cast to the steel use a high nickel content rod. (black color coating)Also if it is problamatic you can try a little preheat (tacks) and then slow cooling by putting some heat (torch) on the weldment and taper off after a couple minutes.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:I made a fancy divider years ago that was bunches of grapes inside a 1" x 1" x 1/8" square tubing frame. I used a Nirod (hi nickel made for cast) with good success.Another thing  found, if there's some way in the design that you can allow for unrestricted movement, i.e. weld to a piece of flatbar rather than something solid such as a tubing frame, that'll help too.By the way, if you use something cast, be sure it's oriented correctly if there's an up and a down. Ever see bunches of grapes growing up, neither had I 'till I stood back and looked at the first one I had done :-)......Mike
Reply:Probably isn't the answer you want to hear, but, I've have fabbed and repaired much wrought iron railing over the years.  The BEST rod I ever used to join cast iron and steel is Allstate 4-60. It is a Nickel based alloy, and is highly ductile and machineable.  Of course there are others.I have also heard about using 6011 to join them, but never tried it.Good Luck.
Reply:Well,I am still open to input. The issue with the Nickel rods are they are so expensive...Also on long fences and panels welding hundreds of items,  it just seems impractical.  Around here Nickel rods go for about $35-40/lb. 12 rods or so per pound...ouch!Allstate,  kinda like the car?  lolEsab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I'm not a great welder but I have had occasion to stick steel to cast.I would suggest the nirod followed quickly by peening with a blunt air chisel.  That may sound funny but it has worked for me.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Originally Posted by mrmikeyI made a fancy divider years ago that was bunches of grapes inside a 1" x 1" x 1/8" square tubing frame. I used a Nirod (hi nickel made for cast) with good success.Another thing  found, if there's some way in the design that you can allow for unrestricted movement, i.e. weld to a piece of flatbar rather than something solid such as a tubing frame, that'll help too.By the way, if you use something cast, be sure it's oriented correctly if there's an up and a down. Ever see bunches of grapes growing up, neither had I 'till I stood back and looked at the first one I had done :-)......Mike
Reply:I am still open to input. The issue with the Nickel rods are they are so expensive...Also on long fences and panels welding hundreds of items, it just seems impractical. Around here Nickel rods go for about $35-40/lb. 12 rods or so per pound...ouch!
Reply:Originally Posted by Magnetic MechanicI'm not a great welder but I have had occasion to stick steel to cast.I would suggest the nirod followed quickly by peening with a blunt air chisel.  That may sound funny but it has worked for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by Magnetic MechanicOh i forgot - have also done this with SS wire using mig.
Reply:I  did try the 6011.  It did the job much better than the MIG with er70s-6 aristorod.I will find some stainless rod and try it. Hey Hammack,When are you coming this way?Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:We used to use 3/32 7018. grind the scale off first. Then a nice tap with a hammer, to see if it passed the audition But disimiler specific filler would be better, especially if liability may be a concern